Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[JackDaydream]

The question of life after death is one that I have wondered about since I was a teenager and was given an essay to write, 'Is there life after death? It lead me to read on the topic and long after the essay was completed I kept on reading. I still think that in many ways it is one of the biggest philosophy problems because whether we live one life or any further from of existence makes a difference to how we view this one. However, as I have spent a lot of time dwelling on it, I do often feel that I am going around in circles, and wish to focus on this one rather than spending so much time thinking about what happens beyond death.

Yet, I do stil find considering the various possibilities as fascinating area. Having been brought up as a Catholic, I was brought up to believe in heaven and hell, with there being a resurrection at the end of the world. The idea of hell has disturbed me at times. But, even as a child I did wonder about reincarnation, even though it was not what I was taught at all. I probably did not consider the possibility of there being no life after death until many years later. I feel that some people just dismiss the idea of life after death as in contradiction to the ideas of science, but I am not sure that it is that simple.

Thinking about life after death is often bound up with religious faith but I see it as a philosophy problem and even within religious traditions there are different interpretations of specific ideas. In Christianity there are two separate ways of seeing it. Some people have thought that life after death exists straight after death and others have believed that it does not exist until the resurrection at the end of the world. In Eastern thought, the idea of reincarnation varies with some believing that people can be reborn as other forms of life and some suggesting that the person is usually reborn as person in a future incarnation.

One other aspect of the issue is the near death experiences which many people have experienced. What do they signify? Of course, the people were not dead ultimately and it can be argued that the experiences were related to chemical changes of the illness. Nevertheless, the experiences do seem to be similar to what is described in, 'The Tibetan Book of the Dead.'

I am interested to know what members of the forum think about the issue of life after death and whether it matters in this life. Also, is it possible to really come up with any tangible answers? Or, is the argument against life after death completely convincing?

[stevie]

I find purely speculative questions irrelevant. Life before death is relevant.

[Steve3007]

Having been brought up as a Catholic, I was brought up to believe in heaven and hell, with there being a resurrection at the end of the world.

Suppose you had not been brought up a Catholic. Suppose you had been brought up without anybody ever mentioning, one way or the other, whether or not your consciousness can survive your physical death. In that scenario, do you think you would have a view as to whether or not that can happen? If so, what do you think that view would be based on?

[JackDaydream]

@Steve3007

Your question is one which I think about a lot and I have questioned Catholicism a lot. I am interested in comparative religion and have a genuine interest in the various viewpoints. I have probably always thought about other perspectives because I know so many people from other backgrounds, and have lived with Muslims, Hindus and atheists. It does partly come down to the issue of relativism, but I am interested in seeing beyond that.

I do think that the most complex aspect is how deeply one's upbringing goes on a subconscious level. So, I would say that even though I don't accept the ideas which I was taught as a child, I do feel they probably affect me on a deeper level. Some people do reject what they are taught as children completely though. But, as far as the subconscious aspect is concerned those who are not brought up with any religious faith at all are affected equally by what they were taught at school as much as people brought up in a religious faith. I grew up with competing ideas from religion and from the ideas of our culture, and it has lead me to explore further whereas some people are not in the position of feeling that they need to question belief and the idea of life after death in such depth.

[Steve3007]

...But, as far as the subconscious aspect is concerned those who are not brought up with any religious faith at all are affected equally by what they were taught at school as much as people brought up in a religious faith...

I agree that things we are told during our early years can stay with us in various ways, and that clearly doesn't just mean religious ideas. For example, I still remember being taught not to split infinitives, and even though there's really nothing wrong with it, and it's fine to boldly split infinitives that nobody has split before, I have an innate reluctance to do it.

But if, during one's upbringing, life after death was not discussed at all (either to affirm or deny it), then presumably on that subject at least there would be nothing there to have an effect one way or the other. In that case, with that upbringing, on that particular subject, how would we react when first introduced to the idea? I guess, if somebody said to us "When you die you're still going to be able think about stuff" we' might say something like: "Why do you say that? I've seen people thinking about stuff. Dead people don't look as though they're thing about stuff.".

[JackDaydream]

@Steve3007

I know a lot of people who were not brought up in families in which life after death was discussed
who do wonder about it a lot. I think that some people are more predisposed to think about this and other philosophical questions. Even though I was in a religious family, I was inclined to ask my parents big questions, most of which they did not know how to answer at all. They never analyzed the basis of their beliefs like I do. It probably depends on how much a person begins to ask questions about the meaning of life, and death in connection with this.

You say that dead people don't look as though they are thinking, and I am sure they if there is consciousness survives death it is in a very different form to the way it is when we are living earthly existences.

[Nick_A]

The question of life after death is one that I have wondered about since I was a teenager and was given an essay to write, 'Is there life after death? It lead me to read on the topic and long after the essay was completed I kept on reading. I still think that in many ways it is one of the biggest philosophy problems because whether we live one life or any further from of existence makes a difference to how we view this one. However, as I have spent a lot of time dwelling on it, I do often feel that I am going around in circles, and wish to focus on this one rather than spending so much time thinking about what happens beyond death.

Yet, I do stil find considering the various possibilities as fascinating area. Having been brought up as a Catholic, I was brought up to believe in heaven and hell, with there being a resurrection at the end of the world. The idea of hell has disturbed me at times. But, even as a child I did wonder about reincarnation, even though it was not what I was taught at all. I probably did not consider the possibility of there being no life after death until many years later. I feel that some people just dismiss the idea of life after death as in contradiction to the ideas of science, but I am not sure that it is that simple.

Thinking about life after death is often bound up with religious faith but I see it as a philosophy problem and even within religious traditions there are different interpretations of specific ideas. In Christianity there are two separate ways of seeing it. Some people have thought that life after death exists straight after death and others have believed that it does not exist until the resurrection at the end of the world. In Eastern thought, the idea of reincarnation varies with some believing that people can be reborn as other forms of life and some suggesting that the person is usually reborn as person in a future incarnation.

One other aspect of the issue is the near death experiences which many people have experienced. What do they signify? Of course, the people were not dead ultimately and it can be argued that the experiences were related to chemical changes of the illness. Nevertheless, the experiences do seem to be similar to what is described in, 'The Tibetan Book of the Dead.'

I am interested to know what members of the forum think about the issue of life after death and whether it matters in this life. Also, is it possible to really come up with any tangible answers? Or, is the argument against life after death completely convincing?

I think a meaningful response your question depends upon if a person believes Man lives in a conscious universe and if we have the potential for a soul capable of evolving.

"The seed of God is in us. Given an intelligent and hard-working farmer, it will thrive and grow up to God, whose seed it is; and accordingly its fruits will be God-nature. Pear seeds grow into pear trees, nut seeds into nut trees, and God-seed into God." ~ Meister Eckhart

Often when animal Man dies the three forces which comprise our being return to nature resulting in "dust to dust." Secular Buddhism asserts no soul while secular Christianity or Christendom refers to a fully developed soul. They don't make sense to me. However when the conscious evolution of Man refers to the maturation of this seed of God which creates inner unity for the tripartite soul, then it begins to make sense including what is meant by help from above.

Man can have an afterlife and can become the "New Man". The seed of the soul can be saved or can become "food" for the earth. The first question is how a person can nourish the seed of the soul in these times when the world is against it and is willing to be eaten by life.

[LuckyR]

Some things can be said with certainty, others remain unknowable but some options are much more likely than others.

I can say with certainty that if I had a previous life, I have absolutely no recollection of it, so from my perspective it may as well have not happened (even if it did).

We can all know with certainty that no one who has experienced true death can tell us anything about it.

We don't know, but we can surmise that since humans have guessed about the answer to this question since antiquity, that all historical commentary on this topic are essentially myths (whether religious or the Book of the Dead or whathaveyou), since modern science cannot answer the question, the chance of Iron Age intellects answering it is so close to zero, it might as well be zero.

[Pattern-chaser]

I am interested to know what members of the forum think about the issue of life after death and whether it matters in this life.

It's an unanswerable question. Many of us would like there to be an afterlife, and we have no evidence to prove there isn't one ... or that there is. An afterlife seems possible, but very far from certain. Can we progress beyond such wishful thinking in this topic? I suspect not. Sorry.

[Pattern-chaser]

Some things can be said with certainty, others remain unknowable but some options are much more likely than others.

I can say with certainty that if I had a previous life, I have absolutely no recollection of it, so from my perspective it may as well have not happened (even if it did).

We can all know with certainty that no one who has experienced true death can tell us anything about it.

We don't know, but we can surmise that since humans have guessed about the answer to this question since antiquity, that all historical commentary on this topic are essentially myths (whether religious or the Book of the Dead or whathaveyou)...

Well put.

...since modern science cannot answer the question, the chance of Iron Age intellects answering it is so close to zero, it might as well be zero.

[JackDaydream]

@Stevie


I do see your point about, 'Life before death is relevant, ' in the sense that it may be that those who are having a fantastic time in this life may be less bothered about it than those who are feeling miserable about their present life. In many ways, the idea of life after death may have been encouraged by authorities to enable people to cope with oppressive circumstances.


As far as speculation goes, surely philosophy is about that because there is so little in it which is clear without a certain amount of doubt.. I know that many people don't have much time or patience with philosophy for that reason. However, I don't really find that it is possible to stop speculation, even in times of life where I am focusing on other aspects of life and, not reading much philosophy.

[JackDaydream]

@Nick_A

I do wonder about the possibility of us as evolving beings, especially through many rather than one life and that is what draws me to the Buddhist and other Eastern ideas about reincarnation. I also believe that reincarnation was part of some forms of esoteric Christianity. The idea of learning through many lives rather than one earthly existence seems to offer so much scope for development in one mere life. Of course, it could be wishful thinking. Probably the biggest evidence for it is the memories of a former life which some claim.


You query the how the soul can be nourished when so much is 'against us'. I do agree because it is hard to not get depressed and broken in spirit. On the other hand, even though it is not always pleasant we do learn so much through the harshest experiences. I know that in retrospect, I have become a much deeper person through some of the worst things which I have been through. I think that the fine art is to develop some kind of wisdom through difficulties, as in the idea of the 'dark night of the soul', rather than be destroyed through the obstacles where challenge us.

[Sculptor1]

It's not even a question.
It's just a dangerous myth that people prefer to accept rather than live the only life they have, making them prey to abuse in the hopeless promise of a future reward.
The slave hopes for the manumission of death.

[JackDaydream]

@LuckyR

I agree that the answer to the question of life after death is one that cannot be answered with certainty, but I do wonder if human beings are likely to continue to ask it. You speak of science as if it is ultimately superior to science. I agree that is a way of coming up with facts, and I am certainly in favour of science, but I do believe that the mythical dimension is important too. Of course, it is about seeing reality in terms of stories. It is a different way of seeing and it may be that some of the cosmologies which had life after death are not literal, but I do wonder if some of the ancient thinkers, including Plato, had a grasp of certain truths and wisdom which get lost in some scientific based philosophy perspectives.

[LuckyR]

@LuckyR

I agree that the answer to the question of life after death is one that cannot be answered with certainty, but I do wonder if human beings are likely to continue to ask it. You speak of science as if it is ultimately superior to science. I agree that is a way of coming up with facts, and I am certainly in favour of science, but I do believe that the mythical dimension is important too. Of course, it is about seeing reality in terms of stories. It is a different way of seeing and it may be that some of the cosmologies which had life after death are not literal, but I do wonder if some of the ancient thinkers, including Plato, had a grasp of certain truths and wisdom which get lost in some scientific based philosophy perspectives.

Ah yes, the wisdom of the ancients. Let's say Plato was the smartest person in the world. That makes him the smartest person out of 125 million, over 70% of whom were illiterate. Whomever the smartest person in the world today is, they are the smartest person out of 7.9 billion with an illiteracy rate of 14%. Well, the smartest person today doesn't know, therefore sorry to break it to you but Plato didn't know jack on this topic.