Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sushan]

This topic is about the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 
Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral

New ideas often meet resistance.

The author often mentions how his new idea (according to him) was rejected and humiliated by others at first. Throughout the history we see how new ideas have been humiliated and rejected with no ground for the rejection. Most of the scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc. had to fight for the acceptance of their new ideas.

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false? Is this an embedded quality in human nature? Or is it because they feel humiliated when someone disagrees with what they already believe? Or is it merely the jealousy towards another's potential in gaining success and popularity by showing something new to the world?

[stevie]

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false?

If they see false beliefs then they should be able to discern right beliefs. But what are right beliefs?

[AmericanKestrel]

This topic is about the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 
Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral

New ideas often meet resistance.

The author often mentions how his new idea (according to him) was rejected and humiliated by others at first. Throughout the history we see how new ideas have been humiliated and rejected with no ground for the rejection. Most of the scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc. had to fight for the acceptance of their new ideas.

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false? Is this an embedded quality in human nature? Or is it because they feel humiliated when someone disagrees with what they already believe? Or is it merely the jealousy towards another's potential in gaining success and popularity by showing something new to the world?

New ideas are not always rejected. If true IPod would never have caught on. Who needs to carry all their music around all the time? It was an immediate success even at that price point. New fashions are embraced. Art, music, cars.
Maybe the difference is product vs ideas. Product is proof the idea works.
Everyone can come up with an idea. Ideas are cheap. That is why they can be rejected. It needs to be sold for people to buy it. That your last sentence is false is borne out by how eagerly new products are embraced.

[JackDaydream]

@Sushan

It may be that people become attached to beliefs or of fear of the unknown in taking on board new ones. Also, it may be that it is hard work trying to fit everything together in a new framework. I remember, when I had spent a couple of years questioning my Catholic beliefs, telling a woman I met about this and she remarked, 'Oh but it would be too much to think about everything again', and she was probably only about 25, so it was not as if she had embarked on a life long search.

It may be that people only question beliefs when it is really necessary to do so for integrity or when beliefs are fragmenting. I questioned Catholicism when I was exploring the gay scene in London and was struggling to cope with ideas which I had been taught. Also, having questioned so much I do find that it is easy to question ideas regularly because it has given me a kind of elasticity of thought and , if anything it has made it hard to see any beliefs as definitive. It can happen that lack of definitive ideas can result in confusion, because I have come across people who speak of this, or it can be a way of living with uncertainty if ones is aware of the various parts of the jigsaw puzzle which don't fit in.

[Elephant]

There are different reasons why people have a hard time accepting new ideas or changing their beliefs. Old people do not like being taught by young people. The old feel like they had gone through tough times and lived long enough to know that their beliefs are the correct one. They think the young ones are full of themselves, being young and know-it-all.

The professionals with license and credentials do not like being told by self-taught people who have a lot of experience but not enough credentials. On the opposite are the ones who have no proper education in a subject matter yet they think they know more about electrical wirings or how a refrigerator works. If you go around looking at people's houses with DIY renovation, you'd see how terrible looking the renovation is.
And then some people just don't have a sense of how much they don't know.

[GrayArea]

Bit off topic. But I think it would be easier for people to change opinions if they regard opinions as not some result of one's inner cognitive function, but more like a discovery. It would help get rid of the unnecessary entitlement over one's beliefs, as they do not belong to them but are simply found. That is to say that ideas do not belong to a person but the world itself, meaning it is foolish to feel attached to it. My ideas and others' ideas are all inherent parts of the world as opposed to being inherent parts of the individuals who discovered them.

So one has to accept that the appropriate reason for having opinions is not to justify one's capability or intellect, but to keep on discovering better things——whether they are first discovered by ourselves or others do not matter, as long as we get to discover them later on through other people or our own inspirations or whatever.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 
Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral

New ideas often meet resistance.

The author often mentions how his new idea (according to him) was rejected and humiliated by others at first. Throughout the history we see how new ideas have been humiliated and rejected with no ground for the rejection. Most of the scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc. had to fight for the acceptance of their new ideas.

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false? Is this an embedded quality in human nature? Or is it because they feel humiliated when someone disagrees with what they already believe? Or is it merely the jealousy towards another's potential in gaining success and popularity by showing something new to the world?

You are addressing several semi-unrelated issues. First is why new ideas meet resistance. Namely because most new ideas that counter the tried and true old ways are in fact wrong or inferior. We all hear about the one new idea that's better but folks were slow to adopt, but for every one of these success stories there are numerous new ideas that didn't improve anything and it was a good thing that very few tried them.

Second is the rare case where a new idea actually is an improvement, why do some still cling to their old ways? We don't need to look beyond force of habit. True, an unlikable messenger makes it more difficult to get the message communicated.

[stevie]

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false?

If they see false beliefs then they should be able to discern right beliefs. But what are right beliefs?

Also, some opinion about it:

... to show the whimsical condition of mankind, who must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent inquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them.

[Sushan]

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false?

If they see false beliefs then they should be able to discern right beliefs. But what are right beliefs?

It is hard to decide the reliability or accuracy of complex concepts, so let's keep such things aside. But if we think about a concept like the earth being flat, which some people still believe and try to prove so, I really cannot understand why people are so resistant to accept such an obvious fact.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 
Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral

New ideas often meet resistance.

The author often mentions how his new idea (according to him) was rejected and humiliated by others at first. Throughout the history we see how new ideas have been humiliated and rejected with no ground for the rejection. Most of the scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc. had to fight for the acceptance of their new ideas.

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false? Is this an embedded quality in human nature? Or is it because they feel humiliated when someone disagrees with what they already believe? Or is it merely the jealousy towards another's potential in gaining success and popularity by showing something new to the world?

New ideas are not always rejected. If true IPod would never have caught on. Who needs to carry all their music around all the time? It was an immediate success even at that price point. New fashions are embraced. Art, music, cars.
Maybe the difference is product vs ideas. Product is proof the idea works.
Everyone can come up with an idea. Ideas are cheap. That is why they can be rejected. It needs to be sold for people to buy it. That your last sentence is false is borne out by how eagerly new products are embraced.

Ideas are not cheap, and I strongly disagree with you on that point. Just check some news about phone manufacturers who have taken patents for their novel concepts, which are far away from coming out as real products. Since they know the value of an idea they have already protected them. It is true that the product gains the real money. But all that starts with a new idea, which is not cheap at all.

[Sushan]

@Sushan

It may be that people become attached to beliefs or of fear of the unknown in taking on board new ones. Also, it may be that it is hard work trying to fit everything together in a new framework. I remember, when I had spent a couple of years questioning my Catholic beliefs, telling a woman I met about this and she remarked, 'Oh but it would be too much to think about everything again', and she was probably only about 25, so it was not as if she had embarked on a life long search.

It may be that people only question beliefs when it is really necessary to do so for integrity or when beliefs are fragmenting. I questioned Catholicism when I was exploring the gay scene in London and was struggling to cope with ideas which I had been taught. Also, having questioned so much I do find that it is easy to question ideas regularly because it has given me a kind of elasticity of thought and , if anything it has made it hard to see any beliefs as definitive. It can happen that lack of definitive ideas can result in confusion, because I have come across people who speak of this, or it can be a way of living with uncertainty if ones is aware of the various parts of the jigsaw puzzle which don't fit in.

Yes, we see this tendency to hold on to beliefs mostly with regard to religious concepts. I agree that it is hard to put all pieces into new frameworks as we develop our ways of thinking and experimenting, and gain new knowledge. But I think we can keep the parts which are not fitting to the story aside, and keep the acceptable ones in, without totally rejecting or accepting anything. We can do this only if we allow amendments, which we usually do not with regard to religious beliefs.

[Sushan]

There are different reasons why people have a hard time accepting new ideas or changing their beliefs. Old people do not like being taught by young people. The old feel like they had gone through tough times and lived long enough to know that their beliefs are the correct one. They think the young ones are full of themselves, being young and know-it-all.

The professionals with license and credentials do not like being told by self-taught people who have a lot of experience but not enough credentials. On the opposite are the ones who have no proper education in a subject matter yet they think they know more about electrical wirings or how a refrigerator works. If you go around looking at people's houses with DIY renovation, you'd see how terrible looking the renovation is.
And then some people just don't have a sense of how much they don't know.

The beginning for wisdom is accepting that you do not know. When someone think that he already know (not that he/she actually know, but thinks that he/she knows), they miss the chance to learn anything new, and that is the result for such terrible results in DIY renovations.

And for the first part of your comment, the old ones vs young ones, and the people with credentials vs people who do not have any, it ultimately goes towards the sense of humiliation.

[stevie]

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false?

If they see false beliefs then they should be able to discern right beliefs. But what are right beliefs?

It is hard to decide the reliability or accuracy of complex concepts, so let's keep such things aside. But if we think about a concept like the earth being flat, which some people still believe and try to prove so, I really cannot understand why people are so resistant to accept such an obvious fact.

So you seem to be referring to scientific evidence. I refrain from using the word "fact" because that's just an expression of belief and I do not advocate any belief. Nevertheless scientific evidence - being based on sense perception - usually is accepted independent of beliefs with the exception of people who prefer to ignore it and indulge in speculative beliefs instead due to their psychological/cognitive setting.

[Sushan]

Bit off topic. But I think it would be easier for people to change opinions if they regard opinions as not some result of one's inner cognitive function, but more like a discovery. It would help get rid of the unnecessary entitlement over one's beliefs, as they do not belong to them but are simply found. That is to say that ideas do not belong to a person but the world itself, meaning it is foolish to feel attached to it. My ideas and others' ideas are all inherent parts of the world as opposed to being inherent parts of the individuals who discovered them.

So one has to accept that the appropriate reason for having opinions is not to justify one's capability or intellect, but to keep on discovering better things——whether they are first discovered by ourselves or others do not matter, as long as we get to discover them later on through other people or our own inspirations or whatever.

I see. The sense of belonging will make it difficult for a person to change or reject well established beliefs in his/her mind, depending on newer evidence and knowledge. The patents, nobel prize, and things like that give people the feeling of that belonging nature. But in scientific stuff this is quite less due to the ability to prove or disprove them with newer evidence quite easily. But for things like religion, there are well established beliefs that do not have a clear or a proper ground, but have been there for centuries. So if someone challenges such beliefs people tend to do various things to defend what they have known for years, just because of that feeling of belonging.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 
Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral

New ideas often meet resistance.

The author often mentions how his new idea (according to him) was rejected and humiliated by others at first. Throughout the history we see how new ideas have been humiliated and rejected with no ground for the rejection. Most of the scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, etc. had to fight for the acceptance of their new ideas.

Why people are so reluctant to change their beliefs, even when they see that those beliefs are false? Is this an embedded quality in human nature? Or is it because they feel humiliated when someone disagrees with what they already believe? Or is it merely the jealousy towards another's potential in gaining success and popularity by showing something new to the world?

You are addressing several semi-unrelated issues. First is why new ideas meet resistance. Namely because most new ideas that counter the tried and true old ways are in fact wrong or inferior. We all hear about the one new idea that's better but folks were slow to adopt, but for every one of these success stories there are numerous new ideas that didn't improve anything and it was a good thing that very few tried them.

Second is the rare case where a new idea actually is an improvement, why do some still cling to their old ways? We don't need to look beyond force of habit. True, an unlikable messenger makes it more difficult to get the message communicated.

It is okay to reject a false or an inferior idea since we do not need to go backwards, rather than going forward. But I think we all have to be open minded about new ideas, though they seem wrong at the first instance. Such instances are not rare in history where new ideas were humiliated and rejected at the beginning, but later the world realized that they were actually correct.