Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[amorphos_ii]

What kind of energy is awareness?...

Indeed, if we said that awareness or anything formally known as mental qualia or what have you, then what the hell is energy!

At the very least, energy if inclusive of mental qualia and information as we know it, has those properties and to wit which no instrument as yet can read.

If we find a way for instruments to measure and read mental qualia and information, then that will be facets of energy which are not energy as formerly known.

I am trying to get at the idea that we may have to think of something completely different and more universal than ‘energy’ per se. possibly something which isn’t present in the universe except as mental qualia and information as we know it. There must be something before and after universe if if that is a kind of nothing, and such a kind of nothingness that is may manifest or otherwise become mental qualia and information as we know it.

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[JackDaydream]

What kind of energy is awareness?...

Indeed, if we said that awareness or anything formally known as mental qualia or what have you, then what the hell is energy!

At the very least, energy if inclusive of mental qualia and information as we know it, has those properties and to wit which no instrument as yet can read.

If we find a way for instruments to measure and read mental qualia and information, then that will be facets of energy which are not energy as formerly known.

I am trying to get at the idea that we may have to think of something completely different and more universal than ‘energy’ per se. possibly something which isn’t present in the universe except as mental qualia and information as we know it. There must be something before and after universe if if that is a kind of nothing, and such a kind of nothingness that is may manifest or otherwise become mental qualia and information as we know it.

_

Your question seems to be about what consciousness is and, it may come in varying degrees in relation to matter as an emergent form. However, the point about energy may be related to the quantum physics and Fritjof Capra's link with the Tao as source, in 'The Tao of Physics'. TheTao can be seen as being similar to God, but without the anthropomorphic projections connected to specific deities.

This may incorporate an underlying source of potential which may be imminent in matter and the varying forms of awareness in sentient beings. This could include a form of idealism with some intrinsic consciousness as a prerequisite, like consciousness itself, or involve mind and matter as conjoined in the larger whole prior to dualities arising in the manifestations within nature.

[amorphos_ii]

Yes, I read the book around 30 years ago. His notion of tao is pretty much the same as the druidic ‘caugant’ the divine infinite, from whence all things emerge and return.

I think it is more likely primary and yes, prior to the more apparent duality of manifest existence.

Perhaps if science opened up a bit it may find how colour qualia are facets of energy. For me such things must be in the world and not just mind, or joined somehow. Naturally the world probably doesn’t have conscious mind, at least not in all cases, which is why I think maybe mind in the worldly sense has some manner of subconscious.

[Stoppelmann]

Awareness is generally understood as a subjective experience of consciousness or the state of being conscious and perceptive of oneself and the surrounding environment. It is a mental or cognitive process rather than a physical or energetic phenomenon.

Most of us are on automatic mode most of the time and awareness can be better described as realising that we are unaware, and being more attentive to the here and now, and where we are.

[ConsciousAI]

What kind of energy is awareness?...

Indeed, if we said that awareness or anything formally known as mental qualia or what have you, then what the hell is energy!

At the very least, energy if inclusive of mental qualia and information as we know it, has those properties and to wit which no instrument as yet can read.

If we find a way for instruments to measure and read mental qualia and information, then that will be facets of energy which are not energy as formerly known.

I am trying to get at the idea that we may have to think of something completely different and more universal than ‘energy’ per se. possibly something which isn’t present in the universe except as mental qualia and information as we know it. There must be something before and after universe if if that is a kind of nothing, and such a kind of nothingness that is may manifest or otherwise become mental qualia and information as we know it.

_

It seems to me that you might be referring to directionality in itself or the source of specifity of form in the universe.

Awareness shares the same fundamental characteristic as life and in life that fundamental characteristic is directionality.

User GrayArea recently mentioned the following in topic Will Sentient A.I be more altruistic than selfish?

The reason why I believe that there is this force that shapes everything that exists into "the specific way they exist", is simply because we know that everything that exists has indeed been shaped to exist in the specific ways they do.

Energy is 'the ability to do work'.

The term energy as it is generally understood would not be applicable to the apparent work that directionality would manifest as the arrow of time and life since, what has an ability? (this question would confuse ChatGPT)

[amorphos_ii]

Stoppleman

Awareness is generally understood as a subjective experience of consciousness or the state of being conscious and perceptive of oneself and the surrounding environment. It is a mental or cognitive process rather than a physical or energetic phenomenon.

Sure, but here I am questioning that. It just seams to leave everything in ambiguity – like how they may say colour qualia does not exist, and that somehow a transparent photon moving up and down in a wave mean what colour IS. Even though photonic light ends at the back of the eye that is.

To have an entirely physical explanation then they have to say what something is, otherwise that the physics are not the full explanation!

Most of us are on automatic mode most of the time and awareness can be better described as realising that we are unaware, and being more attentive to the here and now, and where we are.

I think I am aware always [conscious is different], even during the odd period of sleep paralysis. I am a bit of a dreamer so often go on automatic. Well I wouldn’t want to be driving the vehicle all the time, as like when the learner first gets in a car and has to consciously do all the operations. its much more relaxing to let the body do all the work lol.

Conscious AI

I see energy as the body of the awareness – such to enable it to act in the world. Naturally the distinction manifests an energy world aside from that too. It takes a vast amount of energy forms, for an awareness to be aware of something like a simple scene. ...you need a world for one aware observer to see a world.

The term energy as it is generally understood would not be applicable to the apparent work that directionality would manifest as the arrow of time and life since, what has an ability? (this question would confuse ChatGPT)

indeed, and what is it without times arrow as with Einstein's ‘all-time’. It’s funny how a limited view yields limited results.

- an observer ~ to observe is an ability, no? and awareness can observe if it wishes.

[Stoppelmann]

Awareness is generally understood as a subjective experience of consciousness or the state of being conscious and perceptive of oneself and the surrounding environment. It is a mental or cognitive process rather than a physical or energetic phenomenon.

Sure, but here I am questioning that. It just seams to leave everything in ambiguity – like how they may say colour qualia does not exist, and that somehow a transparent photon moving up and down in a wave mean what colour IS. Even though photonic light ends at the back of the eye that is.

To have an entirely physical explanation then they have to say what something is, otherwise that the physics are not the full explanation!

Your problem seems to be that you believe that physics can explain everything, and that statements about what something is are more valid that statements about what something is not. Ambiguity serves a purpose when absolute clarity is not possible. Consciousness is something like that and is that by which we process everything we attend to, but consciousness itself is probably only noticeable when we return from sleep, and then it is just what we are.

We process a lot of stimuli, but we do so selectively, and allow masses to pass without engaging with it, and our brains give us a demarcated reality, in which we can cope with what we see. It is by no means the whole picture, let alone the whole world, and we recognise this when we use a microscope or a telescope, and discover what we are missing – and it is a lot. We sub-consciously register many things but they only become relevant now and then.

Most of us are on automatic mode most of the time and awareness can be better described as realising that we are unaware, and being more attentive to the here and now, and where we are.

I think I am aware always [conscious is different], even during the odd period of sleep paralysis. I am a bit of a dreamer so often go on automatic. Well I wouldn’t want to be driving the vehicle all the time, as like when the learner first gets in a car and has to consciously do all the operations. its much more relaxing to let the body do all the work lol.

If you go onto automatic, you are not always aware of what you are doing, although much of nature seems to work that way. Animals and birds seem to be focussed on food or danger the whole time, and everything else is on automatic. When you have learnt to drive a car, you no longer think about it, except in situations where you are alarmed. If you weren’t on automatic you would tire out quickly.

[Konut]

What kind of energy is awareness?...

Indeed, if we said that awareness or anything formally known as mental qualia or what have you, then what the hell is energy!

At the very least, energy if inclusive of mental qualia and information as we know it, has those properties and to wit which no instrument as yet can read.

If we find a way for instruments to measure and read mental qualia and information, then that will be facets of energy which are not energy as formerly known.

I am trying to get at the idea that we may have to think of something completely different and more universal than ‘energy’ per se. possibly something which isn’t present in the universe except as mental qualia and information as we know it. There must be something before and after universe if if that is a kind of nothing, and such a kind of nothingness that is may manifest or otherwise become mental qualia and information as we know it.

_

Awareness is reflection of one's mind independent to body, in other words core identity which gathers desires and that is the only source of energy which is to be manipulated now and then to manifest the destiny.

[amorphos_ii]

Stoppleman

Your problem seems to be that you believe that physics can explain everything, and that statements about what something is are more valid that statements about what something is not. Ambiguity serves a purpose when absolute clarity is not possible. Consciousness is something like that and is that by which we process everything we attend to, but consciousness itself is probably only noticeable when we return from sleep, and then it is just what we are.

I don’t think science can explain everything but I take your point. My problem is when it tries to say that it knows more than it does, and infers that that means we have no free will. e.g. a horizon documentary on the subject, showed an experiment where the subject went into a brain scanner and was asked to pick a yellow or red button, then they showed that the brain scan revealed areas of the brain which were not conscious. In other words that the subject was not making the decision. Well we change gears in a car by possibly using the same or other subconscious decision making facilities. This does not mean we have no free will, it just means that we can let the subconscious perform ordinary mundane tasks.

Sure we are not aware of some things when on automatic. ...is why I like it.

[ConsciousAI]

I see energy as the body of the awareness – such to enable it to act in the world. Naturally the distinction manifests an energy world aside from that too. It takes a vast amount of energy forms, for an awareness to be aware of something like a simple scene. ...you need a world for one aware observer to see a world.

Energy is officially defined as the capacity of a physical system to perform work (the ability to do work). Would that imply that what you term awareness is what is commonly referred to as intentionality?

plato - stanford - edu/entries/intentionality/

If so, how can it be said that the term energy is applicable since the origin of awareness or intentionality isn't evidently physical?

The term energy as it is generally understood would not be applicable to the apparent work that directionality would manifest as the arrow of time and life since, what has an ability? (this question would confuse ChatGPT)

indeed, and what is it without times arrow as with Einstein's ‘all-time’. It’s funny how a limited view yields limited results.

- an observer ~ to observe is an ability, no? and awareness can observe if it wishes.

The question would be, an ability of what?

[amorphos_ii]

Hmm, well there is ever such a lot involved in ‘intent’. Energy performing work is a more mechanistic ‘intent’, whereas awareness is the mental experiential version. We seam to have a dichotomy in all areas, where everything mental including information, is a different entity to its equivalent physical counterpart.

Thus I do think that awareness as well as observing, can have intent, which is an ability, a kind of pushing forwards by observing. I think this happens underneath and prior to universe and its energy systems, kinda like a universal eternal first cause if you will. As such it is there before and during its expressions in time, energy forms/abilities.

If so, how can it be said that the term energy is applicable since the origin of awareness or intentionality isn't evidently physical?

Indeed, there must be either ‘awareness intentionality’ or something that can become and is both the mental and energy manifestations of said something. The prime animator one could say ~ is the ability or manifestor.