Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[George1949]

What Nonsense by apparent eggheads with no common sense.

Get a grip!

Your use of the word "involute" is comical at best.

The Torus model of the Universe is just more BS gibberish.

The universe is very simple. It exists and you are in it, a very small part of it called "Earth".
evolute
[ev-uh-loot or, esp. British, ee-vuh-]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun, Geometry.
1. the locus of the centers of curvature of, or the envelope of the normals to, another curve.
Compare involute (def 5).


Man does not nor has ever evoluted from anything.

Where are you kids, and I am giving you the benefit of doubt as to be very uneducated and young to make such outlandish stupid statements.

Evolution has been fully explained as early as

Charles Robert Darwin, FRS FRGS FLS FZS[2] (/ˈdɑːrwɪn/;[3] 12 February 1809 – 19 April 1882) was an English naturalist, geologist and biologist,[4] best known for his contributions to the science of evolution. He established that all species of life have descended over time from common ancestors,[5] and in a joint publication with Alfred Russel Wallace introduced his scientific theory that this branching pattern of evolution resulted from a process that he called natural selection, in which the struggle for existence has a similar effect to the artificial selection involved in selective breeding.[6]

So again, Cogito, ergo sum, ( Latin: “I think, therefore I am) dictum coined by the French philosopher René Descartes in his Discourse on Method (1637) as a first step in demonstrating the attainability of certain knowledge. It is the only statement to survive the test of his methodic doubt.

[Rr6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqDOnWa88I

To be clear, I do not agree with this torus model of Universe video but I understand approach i.e I understand where their coming from with it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We involute in order to evolute.
The egg must invert to become full fledged critter.
r6

"To be clear" was clearly stated. .." I do not agree with this torus model of Universe video but I understand approach i.e I understand where their coming from with it."...

I.e. I understand some of the logic being implied in the video I posted. Ex involution into the inner negative curvature--- into the hole side ---- of torus would be gravitational contraction. It may even state that in the video.

Evolution out of the hole and into the outer positive curvature of torus is meant to be expansion.

Here is the thing, nobody knows what shape can be assigned to our finite, occupied space Universe. Many of those who claim this or that model of Universe is "gibberish" have no alternative model.

Unlike those who offer us only negative claims--- in regards to shape of Universe --- I actually offer possibilities that follow rational, logical common sense scenarios.

Even before I developed my Space ( ) - Time ^v - Space )( essentials of Universe, I've offered the following link to a Greg Egan animations, that, I've always stated, that comes closet to representing what I believe the graviational, undulating surface of Universe looks like.

http://www.gregegan.net/SCHILD/SCHILD.html

Humans single digestive tract means that humans have toroidal / torus aspect topology.

Humans are obviously more complex than a single torus, however, we should not deny truth when and where exists. This is a philosophy forum and search for truth is key to philosophy. imho

r6

[Wayne92587]

In the Beginning there was only the Spirit, the Mind of God, there being only Darkness upon the Deep in the Beginning.

The Mind, the Spirit of God existing as state of Nothingness, as a Great Void.

It can not be said that God was confused, chaotic, God being All Knowing, however there being Nothing to Know; it can only be said the mind of God existed as Pure Unadulterated Energy, Passion, excitement, while giving thought to nothing.

God's Passion, the mind of God drawing a Blank, only to become more agitated, the Motion of God, God's passion existing as an insignificant innate, inner motion existing without displacement, God being motionless.

Logically speaking, even though being very passionate, God's Motion was not out of place, was not measurable as to angular momentum, as to velocity of speed and direction.

In Fact the Existence or Non-existence of God has always been Uncertain.

In the Beginning, the mind, God's Passion, was unmoving, had no angular momentum, was not off track, was and is still not measurable as to location and Momentum, in Space-Time, the existence or nob-existence of God remaining Uncertain.

Due to the excitement of God's Passion, God's First thought, without intent, burst forth as a Singularity, the Reality of First Cause having Dual Quality, first being an Affect only to be transfigured, converted the Reality of First Cause, which as in the butterfly effect caused the creation of a system of Chaos which made manifest the Heavens and the Earth, the Universe, the Reality of Everything that exists as a Material, Physical Reality.

The Mind, the Spirit, God's Passion, being the seed of All Living Things(living things defined as being the reality of everything that exists in the Material sense of the Word, Reality.

Zero-0 being symbolic of God, once converted into the First Singularity to have Relative, a Numerical value of One-1.

As God, a Singularity having no relative, numerical value, having a numerical value of Zero-0 was displaced, issuing forth having a dual quality, becoming the First Singularity, to become relative, attaining a numerical value of One-1 by becoming the First in a series, the direct cause, the beginning of a system of Chaos, the beginning of a process such as the Evolutionary Process, as the beginning of a continuum such as Space-Time.

0/1; Zero/0 being the seed of the Reality of Everything, being spontaneously Transfigured, converted, into the First Singularity to have relative, a Numerical Value of One-1, the Reality of First Cause.

-- March 21st, 2017, 12:08 pm --

The Theory of Everything. "0/1"

[Alias]

Why bother with the god metaphor?
There was nothing, then there was everything; we are in it; we have only a glimmer of an inkling of what it is we are in.
But we would like to imagine ourselves the center and the purpose of it all - so we anthropomorphize the entire universe!
Look at the big brass balls on that tiny microbulus!

[Wayne92587]

you need a second s on you name

-- March 22nd, 2017, 11:08 am --

The manifestation of God.

Without a doubt the word God as a metaphor, is something other than God; has no other purpose than to be symbolic of the Beginning, the generation, the Creation, making manifest the Reality of Everything.

The first Singularity to have relative, a numerical value of One-1, the Reality of First Cause, that which made manifest the Universe, the Heavens and the Earth, the Reality of Everything that exists in the material, the physical Reality, 0/1.

God is a metaphor for the most minute particle in the Universe, the Reality of Everything being made manifest, for Singularity having no relative numerical value, existing without displacement, a non-being, not being measurable as to Angular momentum, as to location and momentum, existing as a Infinitely Finite Invisible Singularity having no relative numerical value, existing as a Singularity having a numerical value of Zero-0, existing as an untold quantity, as an infinite Singularity of Zero-0, having no potential to be anything other than what it was until a reconfiguration, which came about as a change in the nature of Motion.

The change in the motion of a Singularity of Zero-0, displacement, resulting in the transfiguration, in the conversion of a Singularity of Zero-0, converted into Singularity of One-1 by becoming the First in a series, becoming the beginning of a process such as the Evolutionary Process, by becoming the beginning of a continuum such as Space-Time, becoming the Reality of First Cause, the passion, the nature of the insignificant Singularity, becoming omnipresent though out the Omniscience of the Universe, within the Transcendental (Metaphorical) Fully Random Quantum State of Singularity.

[George1949]

Wayne92587

God and mind are manmade concepts, like heaven, hades, angels, ghosts, the Spirt and spirts. However, the concept of God has no basis in reality, just fantasy. The mind is a concept associated with the physical brain that is not conjecture or fantasy but reality.

The mind is the physical brain and can be examined. If you had no brain or brain stem, you would be dead, and you would not have a mind. Some people have survived without a physical brain, but had a brain stem.

God is superstitious nonsense and only exists in the delusions of man.

If by mind, you actually mean the brain, it does exist. Since God is a manmade concept, the idea that a manmade concept called God having a mind/brain is pure gibberish, just more fantasy.

But, since you are spewing superstitious nonsense, why not give God nine heads like Hydra in Greek mythology. Greek mythology existed over 300 years before Christain mythology began. The Hellenistic period (323-146 BC) existed over 300 years before the fantasy mythology called Christianity began.

The people, who created the concept of God, also gave God superhuman powers. In their definition they went as far as to say that God cannot be understood by mere mortal man, more gibberish. The concept of immortality only exists in the fantasy land of Christians.

Again, superstitious concepts like God have no basis in reality; so of course, they can’t be explained by man except to say that the concept is superstitious nonsense, fantasy gone amuck.

If you believe in the manmade concept called God, I will never be able to convince you that you are deluded. All my beliefs are support by science and can be proven.

Some beliefs are subjective and vary by degree from person to person, e.g., beauty, love. Each person on earth with a brain can give you their definitions of beauty and love, so those beliefs are testable. Just asked any person and you will get an answer.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Wayne92587]

I am an atheist that believes in God, or at least what the Name, the metaphor for God, is intended to explain.
I like you however, do not believe is a Divine Creator.

Language is made up of metaphors, which have only confused Man's thoughts.

To speak of, to give a name, an Identity such as God, to a Sacred, a Secret, a Hidden Entity results in Blasphemy, Hogwash, is an abomination.

The use of a metaphor not only perverts the entity that we intend to speak of, it perverts, distorts, the metaphor itself.

I use science, factual information to explain my thoughts as to what existed in the Beginning, before the beginning moment of the creation of the of the Heavens and the Earth, the Universe, the Reality of Everything that exists in the material, physical sense of the word; Yes there was a Beginning.

Science is stumped as to what the Something was.

The Either?

I am not!!!

I say that in the beginning something exist that had no Mass, which was omniscient simply because it was the only thing that existed.

Existence or non-existence is determined by Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle; existence requiring that an entity be measurable as to Motion(motion having displacement, angular momentum, velocity of speed and direct) must be an entity that is readily apparent, exists as a Material, Physical Reality.

Science has no explanation as to what did of did not exist prior to the Big Bang, it being uncertain.
Which is the reason for some to say that the Universe is Eternal had no beginning, exists without End, is the reason for the Creationist belief in God.

-- March 26th, 2017, 8:58 am --

In the Beginning there was only Nothingness!

-- March 26th, 2017, 8:59 am --

There being only Darkness upon the Deep!

[George1949]

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck"

You are a Christian and believe in the made-made concept called God.

As far as the beginning, it only began when man could conceptualize it, which brings us back to “Cogito ergo sum”, I think therefore I am.

Without man, assuming man is the only being capable of thought and reasoning and communication in the universe, there would have been no beginning. And, if no one existed, the concepts of beginning and nothingness could not exist without man giving giving us definitions for both. Try again.

And, your statement that in the beginning there was only nothingness is meaningless. Nothingness means the absence or cessation of life or existence. And, like all words, the concept of nothingness is made-made.

[rule breaking commentary removed]

I suggest you take a refresher in Philosophy. You can start by reading "PHILOSOPHY - 100 Essential Thinkers" by Phillip Stokes.

[Wayne92587]

I am not the only person to state that everything began in a state of nothingness.

You do not have the slightest understanding of what it takes to be Christian.

[George1949]

Wayne,

Yes, I know completely what it takes to be a Christain.

It takes denying reality and denying that the sciences and mathematics are the only legitimate tools needed to prove anything in the universe or to speculate with logic/reason versus mystical fairytale beliefs and superstition, which are the only tools that a Christain has to prove anything.

And, please do not lose sight of the fact that the Bible is not a historical document and proves nothing other than the fact that superstitious zealots began writing reams of nonsense about events that may have happened centuries before. The Bible proves nothing but superstitious nonsense.

“Copernicus (1473-1543) enraged the Church by writing that the Earth might orbit the Sun. Christian theology holds that the great scheme of God revolves around Humankind; God's only son is a human, God created the Earth and all other animals for Mankind (Genesis 1:28 etc), and the destruction of creation centers around events occurring on planet Earth, to Humans. It was deeply challenging to Christians to face the facts that the Earth wasn't the centre of the universe. Also challenging were other basic facts of astronomy; that the universe is massive, the Earth only one of many planets, and the likely fact that there is life elsewhere in the universe too.

You are talking gibberish when you say “…that everything began in a state of nothingness.”

There is no such state as nothingness. Please show me a state of nothingness. It is just more superstitious gibberish by religious soothsayers and wizards.

Gibberish like how Jesus was a man, and the son of a supernatural unprovable creature created by man whom they chose to call God.

There is no proof that Jesus existed or was the son of Joseph and Mary who was born in Bethlehem. Just what was written by a religious zealot named Apostle Matthew. There is no proof that Joseph and Mary existed or that Matthew existed.

In the last hundred years, many Christians have written reams of nonsense that somehow the Romans e.g., Tacitus wrote about Jesus and his birth. Pure nonsense! They will even try to prove that a fire in Rome in A.D. 64 destroyed it. Again, just more religious zealots speculating with no proof whatsoever.


So in conclusion Wayne, I have summed up the essence of what it takes to be a Christain. It takes a complete denial of reality.

Have your God come on down and give a speech at a location of its choice. Have him bring along his buddy the Devil just for fun.

Reality is a tough sword to swallow.

[Wayne92587]

The fact is that I am not a Christian. I say that more likely not that Jesus the so called Christ is acually the anti Christ,

-- March 27th, 2017, 1:00 pm --

You saying that I am Christian tells me that you do not kbow what you are talking about.

-- March 28th, 2017, 7:41 am --

George 1949; I am impressed with your post, very well written, except for the fact that I use mathematics to prove my point.
I accept your definition as to what it takes to be a Christian, I understand your thoughts about Nothingness but I do not accept them as fact.
People believe is God because there is something out there that is not readily apparent, the is not measurable as to location and momentum in Space-Time.
Using the Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, the existence or non-existence of God is uncertain.

You have to be able to read between the Lines. It is an abomination to give a name, which simply means to speak of, to define, to put a Face on that which is Sacred, Secret, Hidden, not only distorting, perverting, the Reality of that which you are attempting to speak of, to give a name too, it also creates an abomination of the metaphor used to give a name to that which is not readily apparent.
In the dictionary it says that to speak of something is to give it a Name.

It is forbidden to look upon the Face of God, God being Sacred, Secret, hidden; it is forbidden, an abomination, to speak of, give a name to that which is Sacred.

If you look upon the Face of God you will be struck Blind, there is no Physical, God; God is just a word, is not the name, of a person place or thing.

I understand why you falsely define me as being a Christian, simply because of my use of the word Nothingness.

[George1949]

I have lost all respect for any and all philosophical academic endeavors. You folks are just playing word games and jacking with the literal world, the real world. Reality.

Have fun with your metaphysical nonsense.

By the way, eggs don't invert. For example, in humans and chickens, the eggs are provided by the female of the species. The eggs must be fertilized by male sperm. The male sperm that fertilizes the female eggs is provided by the male chicken or the man in the human species.

Please take a refresher course in Biology 101; then get back to me once your are educated. I am assuming a lot about you becoming educated.

[Wayne92587]

George; what does your post have to do with you declaring me a Christian because of what I said in my post????????

-- April 10th, 2017, 12:19 pm --

George 1949

I have lost all respect for any and all philosophical academic endeavors. You folks are just playing word games and jacking with the literal world, the real world. Reality.

I agree with that statement; Mankind having generated, created, Knowledge having a dual quality, Absolutely Bad Knowledge having been mistakenly, sinfully, interpreted, to be Absolutely Good Knowledge.

The Knowledge of Good and Evil having caused the all philosophical academic endeavors to become perverted, distorted, an abomination, the purveyor of Evil, the generator, the creator, of Unnecessary Suffering.

[Kasukage]

This is all I have to say. Everything on this universe including the universe itself is living. What really makes up a person? Atoms. That is also the makeup of rocks, plants, animals, and even planets. Everything is made up from atoms besides recently discovered elements and matter. What makes a human so different from everything else? Nothing all we have is a slightly higher brain capacity than others. Most likely there are other "aliens" in the universe but we still are no different from anything else.if there is a soul, everything must have is or else it just need to be scientifically proven. All in all, everything is alive and you just don't understand it's language.