Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Philosophy Explorer]

Is it just a bunch of symbols? Or is math something more? At what point in history do you think that math became real? Do you think that math will continue to get more real? If so what do you think will help get math more real?

[Wuliheron]

Metaphorically speaking, according to quantum mechanics reality is for those who can't handle the truth because they don't get the punch lines. The truth being absurd because it keeps changing with each new punch line. This is something academics have historically hated and despised about logic itself because the foundations of logic originated from a bar room joke first told by Socrates, "The only thing I know is that I know nothing".

That might sound bizarre to contemplate, but it makes perfect sense if you merely assume that words have no intrinsic meaning. We are the belief makers, we give it all meaning, and whether that meaning comes from humor or whatever is irrelevant unless you take offense at the idea that the meaning of life, the universe, and everything might actually be the punch line to a joke. Personally, I love a good joke.

[Someguy1]

Is it just a bunch of symbols?

The general question is, are abstract symbols real? Is a book real? It's just a collection of letters and words arranged according to accepted rules. If the book purports to be fiction, is it less real than a book that purports to be history? One could argue that it's often the opposite!

When you read the articles in your daily newspaper, is that real? Or is it just a collection of stories someone is telling you? Read your Chomsky.

If you can explain your feelings about these questions, then we would know what you regard as real. Math is real in that it's the product of human beings. We make math and we make apple pies. And Apple phones! And the making of apple pies and Apple phones depend crucially on all kinds of math. No I'm not going to make a pi joke!

In other words humans make physical things, and we make math. They are both real. They're both products of the human imagination and work ethic.

We have a distinction between abstract things and physical things; but they are both equally real.

And perhaps someday we'll be able to identify the exact neural processes that make up our understanding of abstractions. Ultimately you could argue that even abstractions are physically real; insofar as they are the result of chemical processes in our brains that in principle can someday be completely understood by science.

Of course when that day of scientific understanding arrives, it will be in the form of differential equations! So does math even precede the ability to form mental abstractions? If it's math that ultimately governs our mental processes ... where'd the math come from? Why do the electro-chemical processes in our brains operate according to math?

[Theophane]

Math is a language that describes what is real. It's the map and not the territory.

[Spiral Out]

I think that math is an abstract Human construct that allows us to communicate ideas about what we can perceive. It's not real. You cannot touch math or hold it in your hand. It's a concept. It's an active device for conveying ideas. It's neither true nor false but there is an agreement to hold it as universally applicable, and thus valuable. It is just a bunch of symbols like every other communicative construct. Math is our limited understanding of what our existence and what our environment is.

[Wuliheron]

Math is a language that describes what is real. It's the map and not the territory.

The map is made from part of the territory such as a tree that was cut down to make the paper. Thus, reality is for those who can't handle the truth because they don't get the punch lines. We are the belief makers, we give it all meaning and the meaning keeps changing.

[Spiral Out]

If we could look at ourselves objectively then we would find no reality in what we do. What is real? We cannot know!