Gaia theory was first proposed by James Lovelock, and I believe also goes under another name, something like Earth Systems Science. Selfish Gene Theory has a big proponent in Richard Dawkins.
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MalkuthSamanera1 wrote:How far is it possible to reconcile Gaia Theory with Selfish Gene Theory and what implications does the discussion have for the relations between individuals and society?It's not possible to reconcile Gaia "theory" with evolutionary biology. Gaia "theory" isn't even a theory, and it's debatable whether it can be called "science". It doesn't explain anything and it doesn't predict anything.
Gaia theory was first proposed by James Lovelock, and I believe also goes under another name, something like Earth Systems Science. Selfish Gene Theory has a big proponent in Richard Dawkins.
It's not possible to reconcile Gaia "theory" with evolutionary biology. Gaia "theory" isn't even a theory, and it's debatable whether it can be called "science". It doesn't explain anything and it doesn't predict anything.This statement is of course reflective of a strictly scientistic viewpoint, consistent with its author's previous posts. Scientism is an attitude best reserved for the laboratory. I am glad that the 2 scientists I actually have acquaintance with are too broadminded, imaginative, and socially adapted to be hemmed in by such a straightjacket. Philosophy of Science is free to consider the findings of science within the cultural metaphors that give those findings application and meaning. Gaia is an excellent metaphor for placing science within a holistic epistemological framework.
A Poster He or I wrote:As you say, Gaia is a metaphor, just not a particularly suitable one to apply to reality.
This statement is of course reflective of a strictly scientistic viewpoint, consistent with its author's previous posts. Scientism is an attitude best reserved for the laboratory. I am glad that the 2 scientists I actually have acquaintance with are too broadminded, imaginative, and socially adapted to be hemmed in by such a straightjacket. Philosophy of Science is free to consider the findings of science within the cultural metaphors that give those findings application and meaning. Gaia is an excellent metaphor for placing science within a holistic epistemological framework.
Teh wrote: (Nested quote removed.)Okay folk, Gaia is useful as metaphor in the way described above, but it is more than this...it is an intuitive representation, from a scientist, which has further led to significant evidence to support hypotheses based on 'Gaia'. I might add that 'The Big Bang' and other key theories in science are useful predictors and orientation points, often intuitively arrived at (ALL scientists use intuition, whether they realise it or not -they are human), but these theories (including 'The Big Bang') cannot be irrefutably proved, nor the science behind them completely explained. Working hypotheses are useful and this is precisely what Gaia is -a working hypothesis. Nevertheless as far as I understand it it provides a useful framework which has led to significant information gathering- -below I have copied and pasted information from Wikipedia. I understand this is not the most credible source, but it is true enough, and I haven't currently got time to search for the more credible sources online -but they are there if you want to look for them, I assure you:
As you say, Gaia is a metaphor, just not a particularly suitable one to apply to reality.
MalkuthSamanera1 wrote:For a start, there is no such thing as a scientific theory that can be "irrefutably proved". However successful theories not only explain reality, but often make predictions that are directly testable. For example big-bang theory predicted the cosmic microwave background long before the CMB was observed. Big-bang theory is now almost synonymous with quantum gravity, has lead to a great number of discoveries, and continues to push forward fundamental research. The idea that the science behind the big-bang cannot be fully explained is not only nonsense, but a self-contradiction.
Okay folk, Gaia is useful as metaphor in the way described above, but it is more than this...it is an intuitive representation, from a scientist, which has further led to significant evidence to support hypotheses based on 'Gaia'. I might add that 'The Big Bang' and other key theories in science are useful predictors and orientation points, often intuitively arrived at (ALL scientists use intuition, whether they realise it or not -they are human), but these theories (including 'The Big Bang') cannot be , nor the science behind them completely explained. Working hypotheses are useful and this is precisely what Gaia is -a working hypothesis. Nevertheless as far as I understand it it provides a useful framework which has led to significant information gathering- -below I have copied and pasted information from Wikipedia. I understand this is not the most credible source, but it is true enough, and I haven't currently got time to search for the more credible sources online -but they are there if you want to look for them, I assure you:
Teh wrote: (Nested quote removed.)You demean your argument by using derogatory language.
For a start, there is no such thing as a scientific theory that can be "irrefutably proved". However successful theories not only explain reality, but often make predictions that are directly testable. For example big-bang theory predicted the cosmic microwave background long before the CMB was observed. Big-bang theory is now almost synonymous with quantum gravity, has lead to a great number of discoveries, and continues to push forward fundamental research. The idea that the science behind the big-bang cannot be fully explained is not only nonsense, but a self-contradiction.
By contrast Gaia theory is just pseudoscience, requiring some sort of spiritual connection to guide evolution towards some sort of hippy paradise. I note that in your extensive cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you fail to include the bit where it explains why Gaia theory is pseudoscientific clap-trap.
MalkuthSamanera1 wrote: (Nested quote removed.)And cherry-picking from Wikipedia elevates your argument.
You demean your argument by using derogatory language.
Teh wrote: (Nested quote removed.)You also demean your argument by making no distinction between the Gaia Hypothesis and the way it is used by different people (including 'hippies'). You cannot judge the validity of the Hypothesis based on the way it is used and appropriated by different groups of people. This is not logical at all. Many great thinkers and scientists throughout history would be damned by the same faulty logic.
For a start, there is no such thing as a scientific theory that can be "irrefutably proved". However successful theories not only explain reality, but often make predictions that are directly testable. For example big-bang theory predicted the cosmic microwave background long before the CMB was observed. Big-bang theory is now almost synonymous with quantum gravity, has lead to a great number of discoveries, and continues to push forward fundamental research. The idea that the science behind the big-bang cannot be fully explained is not only nonsense, but a self-contradiction.
By contrast Gaia theory is just pseudoscience, requiring some sort of spiritual connection to guide evolution towards some sort of hippy paradise. I note that in your extensive cut-and-paste from Wikipedia, you fail to include the bit where it explains why Gaia theory is pseudoscientific clap-trap.
Teh wrote: (Nested quote removed.)Ah, but I was careful to state that there are more credible sources out there (I have read them myself on previous occasions). I was careful to state that Wikipedia is not the most credible source, it was just to get the ball rolling.
And cherry-picking from Wikipedia elevates your argument.
MalkuthSamanera1 wrote:I can read Wikipedia too. The Gaia hypothesis (as Wikipedia refers to it) has either zero content beyond standard evolutionary theory, or it is teleological, in which case it is wrong. So it either adds nothing, or it is wrong, depending on how you interpret it, which makes it even worse!
You also demean your argument by making no distinction between the Gaia Hypothesis and the way it is used by different people (including 'hippies'). You cannot judge the validity of the Hypothesis based on the way it is used and appropriated by different groups of people. This is not logical at all. Many great thinkers and scientists throughout history would be damned by the same faulty logic.
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