Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Maldon007]

So I have not looked into what brain studiers think on this subject, so I may just be re-stating what is already known, but I haven't noticed it mentioned anywahere, so here goes.

Why do we remember some things and not others? Why do I remember a black kite getting stuck in a tree, when I was 5yo, 38 years ago... but not what I had for dinner that night?

One theory I have heard/read is, we remember events better if they are traumatic or important at the time. This may be, but some long term memories I have... maybe most, just don't seem to fit into that. Many I only think of as "interesting" moments/images.

Other than my own memories, some of my kid's memories have lead me down this road (the road I will detail in a bit). I noticed some/many strong memories they have, are ones we discuss often, maybe "reinforcing" the memory.

And some of their memories are "enhanced" by info they learned afterward... Like say my kid remembers riding on my shoulders, through disney world, and later when talking about it, I comment that I almsot ran their head into a low hanging sign. Later, when relating the story to others, they include the part about almost hitting their heads, as though they were aware of it at the time... But in reality, they didn't know untill I told them later.

It's like they remembered the event, then later, remembered the time they remembered it. Like making a copy of a copy, but adding a post-it with extra info to the first copy, so it shows on the second, as an integral part.

This lead me to conclude that we remember things by remembering the memory. Not discounting the trauma angle, btw, but the reinforcemnt of the memory (remembering it) seems to "fix" it in the brain... But can also change it, info later learned about the memory may be added, new thoughts/sensations may be added/attached to it, etc.

And by remembering the memory, I mean contemplating it as well, which may be the actual mechanism that solidifies it, not so much the remembering itself... but that instant of seeing an amage, or thinking of a concept (remembering it) can hardly be separated from contemplating said memory. So I refer to the instant of remembering something, then thinking about it, together, as "remembering".

I did an experiment to see if remembering a memory fixes it. I watched a cartoon my kid was watching (I had not seen before) and picked a moment to try an remember. To avoid remembering a WOW moment, like a pointg where cartoon dog bonks the other with a giant hammer, I counted down from 5, and tried to grab the image when I hit 0.

Then a minute or two later, I tried to bring the image to mind. It was vague, but at least one part was detaled and fairly clear. A few minutes later, I tried again, it was still there. Then I tried to remember the scene a second before, nothing, tried to remember what the scene was right after, nothing came to mind.

I see the memory part of the brain maybe working like this (obviously too simple & leaving out a million factors I don't know)- All sensed stimuli is recorded onto a high rez, but limited depth, RAM chip. As time passes, the memories stored here, are compressed, creating vague senses of things, or adding to existing vague senses of things. The memory of a specific pretty flower turns into the general knowledge that there are pretty flowers. But memories on the RAM chip may be stored as specifics, if re-remembered while still specific. Then they are transfered to the long term ROM disc.

I'm sure the ram/rom comparison has been made before, but I just wanted to show how the re-remembering aspect possibly fit in. Anyway, try the experiment, see what you think... or remember.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

A lot of the phenomena for which you provide anecdotal accounts are indeed well-documented in the appropriate scientific fields. This includes the way knowledge learned after an event alters one's memory of the event, the way recalling a memory helps to strengthen it, the way suggestion can be used to alter one's memories, and the way we mistake the way our brain/mind unconsciously fills in the blanks of a memory to give it more detail as actual memories. I think scientific expirments that demonstrate each one of those were recounted in laymen's terms in one of our previous philosophy books of the month, Stumbling on Happiness, which is a book I love and strongly recommend.

As I recall, the book also addressed even more of this interesting aspects of our memory. For instance, we also remember unusual events more than usual ones. That's why people might think they always get stuck in line at the grocery store even though ironically they usually do not because the feeling of something out of the ordinary when being stuck makes it more memorable but then when one searches their memory for how often they get stuck they find their memory filled with it making it seem way more common than it is.

I'm not sure how the RAM analogy works because 'memories' are stored in computer chips and hard-drives very differently than in the human mind. They are stored very exactly in the memory of the computer, and when you go back and pull up the saved data it is the same. Human minds are much better at automatically summarizing the data to save space and improve processing and then filling it in with an imagination when the vague memory is called. A similar process happens on computers with some types of files when they are compressed then re-expanded but lose quality, like with JPEG images but not nearly to the same degree and not with most file-types.

[Maldon007]

Oh well, most of the **** I think up has already been done... If only I had been born 100years ago...




Then I could think up playing recorded words along with moving pictures, not knowing Edison did it the year before