Philosophy Discussion Forums

Is the conscious mind the manifestation of a physical universe, or is the physical universe the manifestation of a conscious mind? This question reminds me of the story of a wise old teacher and his young pupil who sat watching the sunrise one day. The pupil asked the teacher, is it true that people used to believe that the sun goes around the earth? The teacher answered, that yes indeed, people did in the past believe that the sun went around the earth. To which the pupil replied, how could people possibly believe such a ridiculous idea? The teacher answered, tell me my son, what would it look like if the sun did go around the earth?

The point of this story is that lacking adequate detail, the earth going around the sun, and the sun going around the earth, would look exactly the same from the perspective of someone on earth. With two solitary bodies revolving around each other, lacking sufficient information it is impossible to tell which is revolving around which. In much the same way it is impossible to tell if the conscious mind is the manifestation of a physical universe, or if the physical universe the manifestation of a conscious mind. The two would look the same. Or would they?

Of course by looking more closely at the universe around us we can determine that it is indeed the earth that rotates around the sun, and not the other way around. For those who have the ability to see and understand it, the evidence of who revolves around whom, is clear. But is there any evidence to tell us which manifests which, the physical universe, or the mind?

What evidence could we look for to determine if the universe is merely the manifestation of our own mind, or whether we in fact we are a manifestation of it?

Perhaps you don't need a massive physical universe with billions upon billions of conscious minds. Perhaps all it takes, is one. But like the pupil watching the sunrise, how would you know?

Partinobodycular wrote:Is the conscious mind the manifestation of a physical universe, or is the physical universe the manifestation of a conscious mind?

You can be certain that the presently accepted description of the physical world, is incomplete. I have no difficulty with the idea, broadly, that the brain produces consciousness, but the brain is probably the most amazing physical structure we know. The structure and organisation of the brain seems highly complicated.

I do not believe that the brain produces consciousness. However, like the earth and sun revolving- does it really change anything? If our minds produced the universe or if we are a product of our surroundings... Frankly, the question doesn't do anything but perpetuate other questions we can't answer- Science hasn't yet evolved enough. The neurotransmitters that are indicative of human emotion don't fire unless I'm feeling something , so, really, the two worlds you view in contrast are not ultimately so (neurotransmitters being physical and emotions being 'conscious'). The Physical Universe would not exist without the consciousness to perceive it, but consciousness without anything to perceive is irrelevant. Therefore, it's futile to separate the two.

AbsurdGod18 wrote:The Physical Universe would not exist without the consciousness to perceive it, but consciousness without anything to perceive is irrelevant.

I agree that consciousness without anything to perceive would render consciousness pointless, but the physical universe does indeed exist without consciousness to perceive it. What you're saying is without consciousness to perceive a physical universe, a physical universe wouldn't exist, and in turn wouldn't allow any consciousness to perceive it. Very circular. I would say the physical universe manifests itself in our minds, but our minds cannot manifest themselves in the universe.