Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Machiavelli]

Time is something that has played a part in my life for quite some time now. My question is this my interwebs people:

What if time is not linear? But another model of expression BUT we are experiencing it in reverse with the illusion of a forward progression?

[Chronos]

Time is something tha has fasinated my mind from very loong time now. There is an expresion called the Arrow of time. In terms of phisics and mathematics laows of nature should not make difrence between past and future, but as far as I know every sistem in nature has the tendency to go from state of order to state of chaos. That is the secound principle of termodinamics, also known as entropy. That is part of ancwer to your qwestion. Yes there is a reason that time is linear and passing from past to future.

[Whynot]

Time is something that has played a part in my life for quite some time now. My question is this my interwebs people:

What if time is not linear? But another model of expression BUT we are experiencing it in reverse with the illusion of a forward progression?

Do you mean like reality began at some very high super-order and is slowly winding down to ever greater degrees of disorder?

[Belinda]

I wonder if Whynot's query is the same in effect as mine, which is 'is order and disorder infinite,cyclical, or is the arrow from disorder to order and thence reverting to disorder a finite process?'

[Alan Masterman]

and thus, by reaching through the hole in the doughnut, I grasp my own umbilicus and, Munchausen-like, drag myself back to the reality of the present...

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I drink, therefore I am.

[Wbaunda]

Time is something that has played a part in my life for quite some time now. My question is this my interwebs people:

What if time is not linear? But another model of expression BUT we are experiencing it in reverse with the illusion of a forward progression?

I suppose time could be an illusion like all relationships with reality.Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Our mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of our earth life, though our mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.

[Apeman]

We need only bother to "measure" durations as they affect our survival (animated drudge?). Any animal can follow the linear-ness of "time" without pressing to think very deeply at all. Sequence becomes significant only as it relates to process...but process is better engaged-in for things NOT functional at all. There are thing we do, during certain elevated asides, that awaken us to our individual potential. And those things quite occur separate from measured time...or time is measured only by personal threshold. And they dont make clocks or calenders for that.

And then there is the deployment of duality and plurality...and the utilization of intensity as a magnifyer or expander of "time". There is much here to discuss indeed.

[Haller]

nice name choice by the way Machiavelli!
The main thesis of your question is what if we are really traveling opposite the intended forward direction? I would think that the direction forward or backward is just ideas. What I mean is take an anti-particle and particle pair for example. Who is to say the anti-particle is not the particle and we are actually made up of anti-matter? forward and backward are just names we put to our relative momentum. As for entropy, as far as I know YES the universe (according to thermodynamics) started at a "super order" if thats what you want to call it and it is progressively getting more chaotic. Roughly, its like the idea of a dropping glass, it starts in a certain state and once it shatters you can not return it to its original state, no matter what you do. In order to learn more about it though as I have limited knowledge, you would want to look up entropy and thermodynamics.

[Wbaunda]

We are time bound we are born we live and we die. Only man has the potential of limitless time in eternity.





Complexity leads to chaos theories , we are now in the complex age of planet evolution do to technological advancements. When knowledge out paces learning we have chaos.

Our culture is growing and changing, some say not for the better. Every ship needs a guide to enter the harbors without wreaking on the shoals. We have examined our leaders they have come up lacking. We look to the past for guidance only to find many lesson don't seem to apply to the days problems.

We have abandoned past values of other generation and for some we turn to worn out systems, political, legal, social, educational, medical, and religious. There is no agreed upon value, or a way to go forward.

It has been stated the old values need to be returned to but if this value brought us to where we are then how can we use this for our guide? What teaching is better then the others? Is there a teaching that we are not looking at which is the answer? Is the answer as simple as the teachings that we already know and have not tried? Have we forgotten the wisdom from the past?



2000 + years ago we were given such a wisdom.

Do to others what you want others to do to you. Called the Golden Rule.

Brotherhood of mankind, loving others as we love ourselves.

The Brotherhood of Man founded on the Fatherhood of God for the religious among us.

To give is better then to receive, every one knows this one.

How about thinking makes it so.

We are what we think about all day long.



That's this old Philosophers' opinion.

[Chasqg]

Hello everyone... I'm new to this so please forgive any errors of protocol.

I think science has got itself into a terrible bind by assuming that 'Time' has any existence at all. After all, the past has gone and does not exist; the future has not yet come, and thus also does not exist. All that DOES exist is the razorblade edge of what we call 'the present'. And THAT only exists because we are conscious of it.
Thus, what we call 'Time' is simply(!) our enduring awareness of our own consciousness.

[Haller]

Chasq, I think that there is a problem with that logic and here is why. You may think the past is not here, but it is. We have two things called cause and effect that are at the fundamental core of this state we call time. In other words, what happened in the past can does and will effect both present and future. Because there is always an effect to every cause and vise versa, the chain of these events we have dubbed time. Just because it is not tangible, and abstract does not mean its not there.

[Chasqg]

Hi Haller...

Oh yes, I'm a great 'fan' of Cause and Effect. But every Cause is only ever created in the NOW and every Effect takes place only in the NOW. In between, so to speak, the Cause is 'in potential'.
WHERE it is while it is 'in potential' is another matter, but it will only ever come to fruition in the NOW.

We may, as you say, 'dub' the whole Cause-Effect process as 'time', but 'dubbing' does not of necessity confer reality. It is just a convenience. As, for example, we dub a brief period of existence 'a minute' or 'an hour', but that does not mean that 'a minute' or 'an hour' actually exist per se. They are purely man-made.

Meanwhile our minds may acknowledge a Cause in our memory and an Effect in our anticipation, but these are purely personal mental experiences: part of our eternal awareness of the present moment.

What do you think?

[Haller]

I do believe that you have only proved that we are moving through time. If a cause in the now produces an effect in the future and the next moment that cause is in the past and the manifestation of itself is now in the now you have only proved that we move from one present to a different present, because my present now is not the same as my present a while ago, however my present then has shaped my present now. Its all a fluid motion.
Otherwise the other parts of your passage is just semantics, Just because we call an apple an apple doesn't mean it is an apple because the name apple is man made. I'm just letting you know its an apple.
And cause and effect are not just mental. Before I push a cart, I know the cart is going to move. I can even go further in saying that the cart will move at a speed proportional to the force that I bestow on it. Every time I push this cart it will always to the same thing. It will always move the same way, and that is very physical. If a driver hits a person because he was drunk, no matter who the people are that observe, and no matter what anyone was thinking there was still a physical cause a physical effect.

[Chasqg]

All good stuff.

[PhillerUp]

Time is a relation of objects moving in space. We have developed a sense of it moving linearly because we confuse its correlation with entropy. By itself time is an illusion. Entropy is real but there is an opposing force to it. It is called Intelligence. It does seem that entropy will win sometimes however man's intelligence has grown at just the right moments to succeed in keeping entropy in check.