Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Vanamali Thotapalli]

The response that I received to my last post saying God was made in the image of the Kings, Dictators of the past like Putin was the same as so many of my other posts elsewhere, people would rather remain silent than let their morals, values be their Guide, their God
I always say - What is above God? Truth! Truth is above God!
But in the real world we live in, that is not the case
.
Drawn in by cheap & easy promises of an easy lazy life forever, people seem to set aside their critical thinking
Similar to a simple change in a word skewing our morals, values - If I say, "Just quit your lousy job, a rich guy will show up at your door, GIVE away millions and you can live the easy good life forever!"
What will your reaction be? Will you not call me crazy? What fool millionaire is giving away millions?
And yet Religion is making the EXACT same promise!
Death is a gateway to a magic land of plenty - all we have to do is believe, convert of course, and God, the rich guy will GIVE away the easy good life! We can enjoy this good life forever!
Amazingly no one asks how this makes any sense!
Amazingly no one can figure out that these religions are using these cheap promises to push conversions, like a Madoff pushing Ponzi-schemes to get your money
Fear of Death & Greed for the easy lazy life promised seems to blind people
.
Another problem i have is this promise of God's Forgiveness
If I drive drunk one night and caused some material damage, sure, in the light of the day, I am repentant
But will the Judge nicely let me go just because I am now repentant?
First the Judge will ask me to stop crying, stand tall and accept responsibility for my actions
Second, there are apologies to be rendered to the victim for the damages that have been inflicted on them
Third, it is my responsibility to set things straight, to make up the loss, the damages suffered by the victim
Then, and only then, will the VICTIM be ready to FORGIVE me
The judge does not have the right to forgive me, only the victim has that right
Forgiveness is EARNED, not BEGGED FOR!
.
Let's talk about repentance - what is it?
Is "I feel so bad for what I did, please forgive me, Judge" - Is that repentance?
or
Is "I feel bad for the damage that I caused, the harm that i inflicted on the victim by my actions. Please give me a chance to correct my mistakes, set things right"
Which one of the above 2 is true Repentance?
The one that all about oneself, how one can be forgiven or the one that focuses on the VICTIM and the harm caused to him/her?
Guess which one Religion pushes?
.
Plenty of us have made New Year's resolutions - did we not mean them? Of course we did, but most of us fail
What is the problem?
There have been plenty of people who woke up in a hospital bed after a heart attack, realized how close they were to losing it all, hugged their families and vowed to exercise, eat right etc etc
But how many follow-thru? What happens a couple of months later? Back to their old ways again!
As they say, talk is cheap, it is actions that matter - but here's the problem - the latter is hard, the former is easy
.
Religions push the easy way out, the backdoor way out
A nice forgiving God will listen to our cries of repentance, will nicely forgive us so that we can scoot off to Heaven
or oh yes, "Jesus paid my debts"
somehow does not work in the real world with our creditors, does it?
Gods who will help us cheat our creditors, our victims!
.
And the frightening silence of those who talk morals, ethics, values

[Good_Egg]

I always say - What is above God? Truth! Truth is above God!

Nah. Truth is God. The question is which we have surer knowledge of. Do we judge our less-certain ideas of God by our more-certain ideas of Truth, or vice versa ?

But in the real world we live in, that is not the case

I'm always suspicious of those who use the phrase "real world" - often it's a claim that their particular experience is real and other people's different experience is somehow not.

And yet Religion is making the EXACT same promise!
Death is a gateway to a magic land of plenty - all we have to do is believe, convert of course, and God, the rich guy will GIVE away the easy good life! We can enjoy this good life forever!
Amazingly no one asks how this makes any sense!

There is no Religion. There are religions, and multiple flavours of each religion, but you may have noticed that they don't all say the same thing.

For example Buddhism, as I understand it, says that we have to keep on trying out life, reborn as different creatures until we get it right-enough that we can rest in nothingness.

Your problem seems to be with some flavours of Christianity.

Amazingly no one can figure out that these religions are using these cheap promises to push conversions, like a Madoff pushing Ponzi-schemes to get your money

Invent any good thing, and before you can turn around someone's selling cheap imitations of it. Human nature. The field of religion is particularly vulnerable to charlatans, because it's harder to test the quality of the product.

Another problem i have is this promise of God's Forgiveness
If I drive drunk one night and caused some material damage, sure, in the light of the day, I am repentant
But will the Judge nicely let me go just because I am now repentant?
First the Judge will ask me to stop crying, stand tall and accept responsibility for my actions
Second, there are apologies to be rendered to the victim for the damages that have been inflicted on them
Third, it is my responsibility to set things straight, to make up the loss, the damages suffered by the victim
Then, and only then, will the VICTIM be ready to FORGIVE me
The judge does not have the right to forgive me, only the victim has that right

You're talking restorative justice here. And that's great, where it's possible. Why would anyone ever inflict punishment if they could instead compel restoration ?

But maybe it's not always possible. Some things cannot be fully restored. A life. A work of art. A reputation. Confidence to walk the streets alone at night.

An eye for an eye - proportionate punishment where restoration is impossible - is an old idea that speaks to our sense of justice.

As they say, talk is cheap, it is actions that matter - but here's the problem - the latter is hard, the former is easy

Few would argue with that.

or oh yes, "Jesus paid my debts"
somehow does not work in the real world with our creditors, does it?

Does any actual religion say that it does ? That God's forgiveness sets you right with the neighbour that you have wronged ?

Or does it say instead that God desires you to make a restorative peace with your neighbour, and desires your neighbour to accept that restoration and forgive you ? And is offended by your hardness of heart if you refuse ? And it is that offense to God rather than the original crime that Jesus is supposed to remedy ?

Seems like you're twisting or misunderstanding the particular religion that you wish to criticize.