JackDaydream wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2024, 5:58 am
Nicholas Wade wrote:
Religion is a system of emotionally binding beliefs and practices in which a society implicitly negotiates through prayer and sacrifice with supernatural agents, securing from them commands that compel members, through fear of divine punishment, to subordinate their interests to a common good.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 4th, 2024, 9:53 am
If one wishes to discuss religion, then one needs a definition of what it is that is being discussed. Fair enough. But the [proffered definition] does not sit well with my own perspective on religion.
[
My edit.]
JackDaydream wrote: ↑May 4th, 2024, 11:16 am
So, is it the idea of divine punishment that you are uneasy with? This is a variable which may vary considerably with different forms of religion. I was brought up as a Catholic, and the idea of hell worried me so much. At 13, I got in a panic about the passage about ' the unforgivable sin' , and convinced myself that I may have committed it and was destined for everlasting hell. Even after teenage years, I worried so much about hell, as did my mother and some of my friends. If you grew up with a Christian background and have escaped this fear, you are fortunate.
Yes, indeed. But the thing that makes me uneasy is the tone of the definition that Wade offers. It is coercive compulsion, operating by fear of violent retribution for 'wrongdoing'. This is the sort of definition of religion that an atheist might create. And, in fairness, it reflects the kind of thinking upon which the three Abrahamic religions are based. Christianity and Islam cover just more than half of our entire human population, so perhaps that's fair? I'm not sure. For this picture that is being painted of religion is a typically Abrahamic '
hellfire and brimstone' one.
Widespread though it is, I reject this picture of religion, just as I reject the perspective of the Roman Catholic cultists who raised me, and you too. For me, if no-one else, religion is simply a search for understanding. An understanding akin to science, perhaps, but
in addition, a
moral understanding. Religion offers moral guidance to its adherents, and the guidance that my religious beliefs offer me are the reason I believe as I do. My beliefs offer nurture and support, not eternal punishment.
And this is why the starting point that Wade offers seems to me to be biased as an atheist might put it. This topic is about religious ideas, but I think it is flawed from the start, with a highly-polarised view of what religion, as a whole, is.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 4th, 2024, 9:53 am
I think perhaps the "why" is more easily addressed than the "how". And the "how" is almost a non-question. There isn't really a 'how'; I think we just did it. But why? In an attempt to understand, and maybe influence, the world around us...?
JackDaydream wrote: ↑May 4th, 2024, 11:16 am
The why did religion develop is the main focus of my question and the how is probably to do with the specifics, such as education and cultural transmission. In particular, the roots of religious perspectives may have common origins, including the Egyptian ideas. Generally, I was taught the ideas in the New Testament, but, at the moment, I am learning about Judaism as the root of this because I have got to know a number of Jews since moving to a new area. As you know, I am interested in comparative religion, and this is partly through knowing Muslims and Hindus and many other groups. The perennial aspects of religion may be important, as including the basis for moral thinking, as well as overall perspectives on ideas of purity and taboos.
I find it interesting that the 10 Commandments are easily derivable from previous religious scriptures, perhaps Egyptian.
The 42 Laws Of Ma'at
The 42 Laws Of Ma'at are sometimes referred to as "The Negative Confessions" or "The Declaration Of Innocence."
I have not committed sin.
I have not committed robbery with violence.
I have not stolen.
I have not slain men or women.
I have not stolen food.
I have not swindled offerings.
I have not stolen from God/Goddess.
I have not told lies.
I have not carried away food.
I have not cursed.
I have not closed my ears to truth.
I have not committed adultery.
I have not made anyone cry.
I have not felt sorrow without reason.
I have not assaulted anyone.
I am not deceitful.
I have not stolen anyone’s land.
I have not been an eavesdropper.
I have not falsely accused anyone.
I have not been angry without reason.
I have not seduced anyone’s wife.
I have not polluted myself.
I have not terrorized anyone.
I have not disobeyed the Law.
I have not been exclusively angry.
I have not cursed God/Goddess.
I have not behaved with violence.
I have not caused disruption of peace.
I have not acted hastily or without thought.
I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern.
I have not exaggerated my words when speaking.
I have not worked evil.
I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds.
I have not polluted the water.
I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly.
I have not cursed anyone in thought, word or deeds.
I have not placed myself on a pedestal.
I have not stolen what belongs to God/Goddess.
I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased.
I have not taken food from a child.
I have not acted with insolence.
I have not destroyed property belonging to God/Goddess.
Perhaps you need to go farther back than Judaism, in your search? As you have already intimated in your words.