Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

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Is there any scientific experimental evidence that RANDOM chaos could possibly be naturally capable of producing intelligent ORDER ??

The atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!


What was before big bang? A dinner and a movie! If you know what I mean.

[Sy Borg]

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Is there any scientific experimental evidence that RANDOM chaos could possibly be naturally capable of producing intelligent ORDER ??

The atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!


What was before big bang? A dinner and a movie! If you know what I mean. :D

The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities. Even many theists are fine with the Big Bang - God's mysterious ways and all that.

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional turtle.

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

.

Is there any scientific experimental evidence that RANDOM chaos could possibly be naturally capable of producing intelligent ORDER ??

The atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!


What was before big bang? A dinner and a movie! If you know what I mean.

The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities. Even many theists are fine with the Big Bang - God's mysterious ways and all that.

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional turtle.

Sy Borg, was the Big Bang intelligently designed ?

Did the Big Bang produce Laws of Nature ?

Is RANDOM chaos (explosion) naturally capable of producing Laws of Nature ?

Are not Laws of Nature intelligently designed ?

Was not abiogenesis intelligently designed ?


" The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities."

Can you prove it ?

Because in my opinion, the atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution
is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

[Sy Borg]

.

Is there any scientific experimental evidence that RANDOM chaos could possibly be naturally capable of producing intelligent ORDER ??

The atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!


What was before big bang? A dinner and a movie! If you know what I mean. :D

The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities. Even many theists are fine with the Big Bang - God's mysterious ways and all that.

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional turtle.

Sy Borg, was the Big Bang intelligently designed ?

Did the Big Bang produce Laws of Nature ? :D

Is RANDOM chaos (explosion) naturally capable of producing Laws of Nature ?

Are not Laws of Nature intelligently designed ?

Was not abiogenesis intelligently designed ?


" The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities."

Can you prove it ? :D

Because in my opinion, the atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution
is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

No, the laws of nature are not intelligently designed. Creationists always deeply underestimate the transformative power of mutations and variations deep time. They always think ultra short term.

Seriously, do you think a big humanoid spirit designed everything? Some big bloke in the void decides to make a show? It's pretty clear that stuff happens in reality with or without intelligent guiding hands. Do you think the universe is a simulation created by beings of a dimension we cannot fathom?

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

The Big Bang is so much more rational, reasoned and grounded than deities.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!

Creator God Yahweh did it.

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

No, the laws of nature are not intelligently designed!

How could you know that ?

Can you prove it, please ?

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

THE HOLY WORDS OF OUR SUPERNATURAL FATHER, CREATOR GOD YAHWEH
ARE A PERFECT INSTANCE OF HIS OWN INTELLIGENT DESIGN :

[1:1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth,

[1:2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

[1:3] Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

[1:4] And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

[1:5] God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

[1:6] And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

[1:7] So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

[1:8] God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

[1:9] And God said, "Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

[1:10] God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

[1:11] Then God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it." And it was so.

[1:12] The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good.

[1:13] And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

[1:14] And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

[1:15] and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so.

[1:16] God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars.

[1:17] God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,

[1:18] to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

[1:19] And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

[1:20] And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky."

[1:21] So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good.

[1:22] God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."

[1:23] And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

[1:24] And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so.

[1:25] God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.

[1:26] Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

[1:28] God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

[1:29] God said, "See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.

[1:30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.

[1:31] God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


AMEN. PRAISE THE LORD :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19194

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

Creationists always deeply underestimate the Darwinian Evolution's transformative power of mutations and variations deep time.

And rightfully so, because Darwinian EVOLUTION was experimentally FALSIFIED :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19198

[Sy Borg]

Preaching is not actually permitted.

Ok, if you insist, Mr Magic Man did it. Perhaps such forums are no longer for me.

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

Preaching is not actually permitted.

My dear friend Sy Borg,

Hi.

I do realize that you are a vey kind, friendly, and intelligent Site Admin,
and I am just a newbe user here, so this is where our philosophical debate
might end on a bad day, with you remaining on this forum as a winner.

Did you imply that I was preaching ?

You might have noticed that my religion is Buddhism :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19194

However, I was born in a traditional Roman-Catholic family in Europe.
At a time in my life when I completed my basic university education,
and started thinking critically for myself, I left Roman-Catholic religion
behind, for good, even though my parents were not happy about it.

In your opinion, do I preach Buddhism in my above topic?

You might not know this fact that Buddhists never preach Buddhism, as a matter of principle, because Buddhism is not rooted in blind faith needed to defend a purported existence of some invisible Creator Deity or deities in a fanatical opposition to other Creator deities.

So, why would you think that I would like to preach the Holy Bible (above) ?

As opposed to supernatural Creator God Yahweh, the Bible exists, and as such is subject to scientific research of academic atheistic historians, too.

My dear friend Sy Borg, NO OFFENCE, but in my humble opinion, some people on this forum, perhaps even including you, seem to be preaching Darwinian Evolution, simply because the hypothesis of random and blind Darwinian Evolution, exactly like the Bible, has been well historically established, and many atheists have developed a religious blind faith in it, such that on discussion forums they attack anyone who dare to express doubts about it, or worse, dare to ask inconvenient questions, like for example about Cambrian Explosion. All of this being conveniently ignored for the sake of objective scientific Truth.

In my humble opinion, the ideas of Big Band and Darwinian Evolution are clearly another instance of atheistic Creation Myths, and you might even know that the idea of Big Bang was originally proposed by a Roman-Catholic priest.

Buddhism is not a theistic creationist religion. Buddhism is not even a religion, and I am an experimental quantum physicist, and i don't preach anything. I am skeptical of everything, including my own pet-ideas, and therefore I continue to philosophically and scientifically freely debate everything with an open and unbiased mind.

I am sure you know that many prominent mainstream academic scientists hold strong religious beliefs. Human life has never been black-and-white only. Human life is deeply nuanced and frequently ambiguous, and none of us is perfect and omniscient. It was the modern quantum physics which demonstrated to us that Western science knows much less than scientists would be willing to publicly admit.

The Vatican had been engaging in Witch-hunts and the like, so now is pay-back time?

If you don't know, the philosophical view of Buddhism is called The Middle Way (Madhyamaka), and so this is where my mind peacefully remains, between the two extremes of the materialistic atheistic science and the theistic blind faith fanaticism, which are, sadly, the two sides of the same proverbial coin.

I hope that we still agree to respectfully disagree ?

With respect and much gratitude, I am
Sincerely yours,
Jon

[Pattern-chaser]

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional turtle.

Ah! You do know the Truth!

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional FROG.

Ah! Sy Borg, you do know the Truth!

And the Truth is that the Big Bang was intelligently vomited up by the Multi-Dimensional Creator FROG, which evolved completely naturally in a purely random manner during a long-term genetic Lab experiment conducted by Dr. Richard Lenski's scientific research team.

The following is a brief summary of major brave evolutionary steps the FROG has taken on her rapid and dramatic Darwinian blind and random evolutionary journey all the way to the equatorial Africa:

viewtopic.php?p=451600#p451600

[Pattern-chaser]

Of course, a big spirit man might have snapped his big spirit fingers but, then again, deities no better explain what happened in the early universe than a claim that the universe was vomited up by a multi-dimensional FROG.

Ah! Sy Borg, you do know the Truth!

And the Truth is that the Big Bang was intelligently vomited up by the Multi-Dimensional Creator FROG, which evolved completely naturally in a purely random manner during a long-term genetic Lab experiment conducted by Dr. Richard Lenski's scientific research team.

The following is a brief summary of major brave evolutionary steps the FROG has taken on her rapid and dramatic Darwinian blind and random evolutionary journey all the way to the equatorial Africa:

viewtopic.php?p=451600#p451600

Please do not *EVER* change someone else's posted words for your own convenience! That the change was trivial, in a post that was not wholly serious, is beside the point. One does not change someone else's words, and then comment on the changed text. On a forum that works as this one does, that is a rule — a LAW — that we must all follow. I haven't checked, but I imagine Scott already has a rule preventing it, and rightly so.

[ConsciousAI]

Is there any scientific experimental evidence that RANDOM chaos could possibly be naturally capable of producing intelligent ORDER ??

The atheistic idea of Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution is no better than the theistic idea of Creator God or gods.

WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG, AND HOW HAD IT COME TO EXIST ?!

What one should factor in is the interest of science to spur curiosity. Many scientists may privately agree that the origin of the Universe is not likely to be physical, but it might be more important to them to prevent the "God did it" argument, in order to push science towards further progress.

The Big Bang is not a scientific theory, but more like a religious theory. Its original name was Cosmic Egg theory and was invented by a Catholic priest for "a day without a yesterday" in line with many global religions.

"Traditions of Chinese, Indian, pre-Colombian, and African cultures, as well as the biblical book of Genesis, all describe (clearly in allegorical terms) a distinct beginning to the universe — whether it’s the “creation in six days” of Genesis or the “Cosmic Egg” of the ancient Indian text the Rig Veda."

The concept chaos requires order to be conceivable. It cannot stand independently. A Cosmic Egg explosion by randomness is not valid idea.

[Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD]

The concept chaos requires order to be conceivable.

And order requires chaos to have a proper meaning.

Night without day is not night anymore.

So, this brings us to the ancient Taoism and its Yin-Yang symbol :

www. quantumantigravity.wordpress. com/TAO