Philosophy Discussion Forums

Do mental qualia exist?

Example; light hits a red rose [which may actually have brown/other pigmentation, but the light reflects off it as red], and now the transparent photons are moving up and down at a rate which signifies that it is red light.
We then digitally film that and so the said frequency is now an electrical signal and does not have the quality of redness. The signal is then sent into our TV’s where it becomes light and then does have the quality of redness.

We look at the rose or the image of it on TV, and we see the red rose. So the light signal

if we look at [the original light hitting] the rose or any red light, say on an oscilloscope or given device, we wont see its quality of redness within the context of the transparent photons moving up and down at a rate ~ its wavelength [the red light waves]. Then equally when we look into a brain we wont see the ‘mental qualia’ we call red, the inside of a brain does not have a display and has no colours glowing or what have you.

It seams to me that the manner of observation denotes how we see the colour red or wavelength we call red. In the world an instrument is used to ‘reveal’ the colour QUALITY of a colour, then in our brains our visual cortex is the thing observing the info from the given signal. So in one instance we are looking at a device and in our minds we are the device seeing colours and lightness.

It seams that a given quality is read/experienced and there is no difference between our subjective minds and the perhaps ‘subjectivity’ in a wavelength or device.

AI/robot minds could have experiences, thoughts, and see the same as us. they could have subjectivity and experience ‘mental’ qualia, because these are simply qualities of energy patterns.

The mind itself though? Well is an observing mind the same as any observer or collection of? Something brings ‘mind’ whatever that is, into the position of an observer at birth, or perhaps mind can take observational perspectives which are already there i.e. the same as the given observer like a particle of light.

Ergo mind may be something which is out there ~ perhaps as a quality in its own right, and at birth simply get utilised, to wit a robot or AI with the same functionality could think and be alive the same as we are.

the end result is that mental qualia do not exist, there are simply 'qualities' rather than mental qualities.
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When you argue that there are qualities that are not mental, then those qualities must be physical. That idea would be substantiated by your assertion that qualities are 'revealed', which implies that conscious experience is caused.

The mere ability to measure a thing does not imply qualitative experience of a thing.

If qualia aren't mental, then there must be a way to empirically verify its existence. What would be a way to verify your claim that AI can posses subjective conscious experience?

If qualia aren't mental, then there must be a way to empirically verify its existence. What would be a way to verify your claim that AI can posses subjective conscious experience?

We would have to be able to see what the given observer is seeing, but I think it is always singular [it sees what it sees, others see that from their own observational perspective]. An instrument is looking at things in a given way but never from the perspective of the subjective observer.

Equally so, we need to build the tech that can see qualia et al.

I mean the TV has colour which does not exist apparently – not to physicists. Then to philosophers the colour qualia/qualities only exist in our minds – are experiential. So here I am saying that the colour on TV’s does exist, that physical info manifests that colour when we look at it, because info in our minds is doing the same thing

The curious thing is that if you cut into a brain, the colour quality/qualia wont be visible.

Ergo colour exists on a non-physical plane, or an aspect of physics we don’t understand. Perhaps like relativity kinda, an observer cannot share what it sees [is singular], and so a given colour mental qualia exists in its own perspective reality relative to the experience. Could equally say that relativity and all the quantum strangeness exists because reality is perspective based – I state.