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[Pattern-chaser]

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

[Sy Borg]

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

This is (quite unfairly 😊) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

I was somewhat of a social outcast and I wondered what it was about other people that worked that did not work with me. So I become interested in psychology and that somehow lead me to the existential questions of philosophy. In your case, I suggest that the trauma lead you to wondering what everything was all about, and the more you wondered, the more interested you became because you are a nerd (another quality often found in philosophy enthusiasts :).

[value]

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

When you refer to 'philosophers' would it mean academic philosophers or people interested to study philosophy? If the latter, wouldn't that include anyone interested in religion?

The prospect on employment is completely lacking in many cases making the choice of a pursuit of the study of philosophy not an easy one.

The issue was addressed by Bill on the podcast Partially Examined Life: Episode 10 - Kantian Ethics: What Should We Do?.

Question: What is it about academic philosophy that you three found unacceptable? Can you direct me to a convincingly scalding indictment of academic philosophy so that I no longer have the urge to apply to graduate programs in philosophy?

Seth:

The first thing is that Graduate school as an undertaking regardless of what discipline you pick is no more or less a worthy activity then many other things that you can do with your life after you graduate from college.

Philosophy is not inherently less valuable then say English or an MBA (business) for that matter, or accounting or computer sciences or something like that. And I would argue that it is inherently more valuable, but I think that your question whether or not an academic life is worth pursuing as opposed to some alternative, which would be what, I don't know, getting a job and earning money, being an artist, travelling the world, doing good works. What's the alternative?

There is difference between a cynicism about academia as a career; cynicism about graduate school as a pursuit; cynicism about the philosophy program at the University of Texas in Austin in the mind 90's; and cynicism about further academic pursuits altogether.

Mark: or cynicism about the practice of philosophy at all.

Seth: Yes. So it doesn't sound like you have a question about the practice of philosophy. It sound like your issue is about whether or not to go to Graduate school.

Wes: I have to say my cynicism is faded.

Mark: after having a real job?

Wes: Yeah. Yeah.

Mark: how much better it was in Graduate school?

Wes: Yeah. That's my recommendation. Go out and get a real job and come back later in life when you can appreciate.

I am only interested in things that are useless. I am no longer interested in making money. Not that I ever really was. But I think you want to look at all the horror stories and scare yourself about getting a job or how much it sucks. The chronicle of higher education is constantly publication that stuff.

Go on to meta-filter that's got a lot of great stuff; search for "should I go into a philosophy program?".

I used to do that periodically whenever I started feeling like "Wow, I really wish I was back in academia at which I read all these horror stories" but at this point I feel like I can tolerate the bad things and I don't have the same doubts about 'this is useless' and 'this isn't really relevant to anything'. I just enjoy it for it's own sake.

But definitely not go in with the idea that I would have to have a tenure track position somewhere afterwards because the job market (for philosophy) is so competitive. I would go in to it purely because I want to spend my time that way.

And if I have a tenure track position, great, but the amount of anxiety that I had at University because everyone was talking about how impossible it was to get a job, it was tremendous.

... more about the evil of 'real jobs' ...

Mark:

Philosophy is one of those kind of things that maybe you find that 'this is something that I really love' and I am willing to put up with all the crap that goes into trying to do philosophy professionally, which is, yeah it is really hard to get a job, it is very competitive so you better put all your energy into it to be cooler than anyone in your program, and getting into a very good program in the first place, which means having really good grades and working really hard on a honours thesis or whatever it is that you need to get to get into a good school.

I don't think that I was prepared in that way. I think that I did well enough but not well enough to get into the most awesome schools and once I got there it was not like I was publishing things from the very moment that I got there or at all frankly.

So yeah, if philosophy is your goal you better make it your goal. I saw that as a future of, well, if I try my hardest down this academic professional rout then I will be living in Montana doing a post-doc and then I have to move to some other **** University city; like the odds of actually living in a place that is nice are going to be very low. Plus just getting one in the first place. That made me frustrated about. So even from the moment I got in grad-school I was like, I am doing something I really enjoy now and it is making my life better, I was also doing more stuff with my band and stuff. But around the time that I hit 28 years old or something I am going to hit a brick wall. I am going to have say my life is basically over because I have to get a real job. And it didn't turn out quite that badly but ....

--

I suspect that the employment prospect for philosophers in business will improve greatly in the next decades.

Businesses are transforming to become 'morally good' and that requires a lot of work in the field of philosophy. Philosophy is also loved and respected with people in business. I suspect that business leaders in general look up to academic philosophers and that an opportunity to professionally work with philosophers would be welcomed.

(2022) What Is the Purpose of Your Purpose? Your why may not be what you think it is.
"The current fixation on moral purpose puts pressure on executives to be seen as running a “good” business. Defining your purpose (morality) as embedded in culture—as operating in a thoughtful, disciplined, ethical manner—can be both pragmatic and genuine. The full potential of purpose is achieved only when it’s aligned with a company’s value proposition and creates shared aspirations both internally and externally."
https://hbr.org/2022/03/what-is-the-pur ... ur-purpose

Business leaders have been taking on the why question themselves and are truly struggling and failing. As can be seen in the article they are pressured to become socially responsible.

p.s. to speed up human moral evolution a bit I want to add: why should the 'why' of animals and plants be different? Animals and plants may also need purpose and meaning to prosper!

[value]

A fun fact for any traumatized philosopher to cheer up with. The TV show Will & Grace was invented by a philosopher with the use of philosophy.

Inside The Actors Studio - Cast of Will & Grace
Screenshot 2023-02-06 at 05-52-15 Inside The Actors Studio - Cast of Will & Grace.png (469.3 KiB) Viewed 3447 times

Inside The Actors Studio - Cast of Will & Grace
https://vimeo.com/235581585

[Pattern-chaser]

When you refer to 'philosophers' would it mean academic philosophers or people interested to study philosophy?

Both, I imagine.

If the latter, wouldn't that include anyone interested in religion?

Yes, I'm sure it would and does.

The prospect on employment is completely lacking in many cases making the choice of a pursuit of the study of philosophy not an easy one.

IMO the value of philosophy is unconnected with employment, and the need (in our Capitalist world) to earn a crust. Philosophy is like conscience or breathing — a central and essential part of life and living.

[Pattern-chaser]

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

I was somewhat of a social outcast and I wondered what it was about other people that worked that did not work with me.

Of course, I was a social outcast too, I had no idea why, and didn't even wonder why that should be. I assumed that everybody else was pretty much the same as me, but that they were better at it than I was.

So I become interested in psychology and that somehow lead me to the existential questions of philosophy.

In your case, I suggest that the trauma lead you to wondering what everything was all about, and the more you wondered, the more interested you became because you are a nerd (another quality often found in philosophy enthusiasts .

My route was somewhat different, and happened later. The trauma I referred to was that my dad died, aged 29, when I was 4½. I was too young for any conscious or intellectual response; whatever effects there were, were unconscious, I think.

My drift into philosophy came much later in my life, when I came to question the (RC) religion in which I was raised. I migrated from an interest in comparative religion into mainstream philosophy.

[JackDaydream]

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

This is an extremely interesting discussion and it may be unfortunate that it is in the lounge. Several months ago I wrote a thread on trauma and the emotions, and even though my recent thread on good, evil and suffering is placed in the philosophy of religion, because I was trying to frame it within philosophy, the issue of suffering and its relevance to philosophy is one of my areas of interest. It is also related to mental health, psychology and as Marc Almond of the band, Soft Cell, wrote, 'The Art of Falling Apart.' It may be also be the role of the shaman, as the 'wounded healer', as the person who enters into what has sometimes been described as 'the dark night of the soul'. In this respect, I would argue that the traumatised and the broken may go into the wilderness and strangelands, with the possibility of bringing forth possible gems of philosophical wisdom.

[Sy Borg]

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

I was somewhat of a social outcast and I wondered what it was about other people that worked that did not work with me.

Of course, I was a social outcast too, I had no idea why, and didn't even wonder why that should be. I assumed that everybody else was pretty much the same as me, but that they were better at it than I was.

So I become interested in psychology and that somehow lead me to the existential questions of philosophy.

In your case, I suggest that the trauma lead you to wondering what everything was all about, and the more you wondered, the more interested you became because you are a nerd (another quality often found in philosophy enthusiasts :).

My route was somewhat different, and happened later. The trauma I referred to was that my dad died, aged 29, when I was 4½. I was too young for any conscious or intellectual response; whatever effects there were, were unconscious, I think.

My drift into philosophy came much later in my life, when I came to question the (RC) religion in which I was raised. I migrated from an interest in comparative religion into mainstream philosophy.

We all have our own chaos to deal with. My first doubt about religion came at age nine when weeks of concerted prayers failed and my grandfather, who was in a coma, did exactly on Christmas morning. The irony is that he died while the hospital staff were celebrating Christmas, and ruin his day (he worked hard and didn't give himself much time off).

I remember being angry about being lied to. The line was that prayer made a difference, but it did nothing. The exact worst possible (to my mind at the time) thing happened. (In hindsight, the best possible thing would be that someone would have pulled the plug a year ago when it was clear that my grandfather was technically alive, but not actually living, but my family did not think like that).

In my twenties I flirted with Buddhism, but Buddhism was not interested and I moved on :) However, certain value systems of Buddhism resonated and stuck, eg. dealing with ego, material things.

Now I just find it all interesting. Most of the best juice has already been squeezed from this lemon so I'm not really a player any more. Trauma might have first have driven some early philosophical leanings, but these days such thinking is entertainment. I don't much worry about the far future. Either humanity makes it or it doesn't. Given that the Stelliferous Era of the universe has trillions of years to run, if humanity fails, chances are that some aliens will pass The Great Filter at some stage.

[Pattern-chaser]

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

This is an extremely interesting discussion and it may be unfortunate that it is in the lounge. Several months ago I wrote a thread on trauma and the emotions, and even though my recent thread on good, evil and suffering is placed in the philosophy of religion, because I was trying to frame it within philosophy, the issue of suffering and its relevance to philosophy is one of my areas of interest. It is also related to mental health, psychology and as Marc Almond of the band, Soft Cell, wrote, 'The Art of Falling Apart.' It may be also be the role of the shaman, as the 'wounded healer', as the person who enters into what has sometimes been described as 'the dark night of the soul'. In this respect, I would argue that the traumatised and the broken may go into the wilderness and strangelands, with the possibility of bringing forth possible gems of philosophical wisdom.

I put this topic in the lounge because it started out as being fairly trivial. But now it has, perhaps, turned into a trauma-swapping party, and become a little more serious, as you describe.

If you're convincing enough, you might persuade Sy Borg, a Moderator, to move the thread somewhere you feel is more fitting?

[JackDaydream]

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

This is an extremely interesting discussion and it may be unfortunate that it is in the lounge. Several months ago I wrote a thread on trauma and the emotions, and even though my recent thread on good, evil and suffering is placed in the philosophy of religion, because I was trying to frame it within philosophy, the issue of suffering and its relevance to philosophy is one of my areas of interest. It is also related to mental health, psychology and as Marc Almond of the band, Soft Cell, wrote, 'The Art of Falling Apart.' It may be also be the role of the shaman, as the 'wounded healer', as the person who enters into what has sometimes been described as 'the dark night of the soul'. In this respect, I would argue that the traumatised and the broken may go into the wilderness and strangelands, with the possibility of bringing forth possible gems of philosophical wisdom.

I put this topic in the lounge because it started out as being fairly trivial. But now it has, perhaps, turned into a trauma-swapping party, and become a little more serious, as you describe.

If you're convincing enough, you might persuade Sy Borg, a Moderator, to move the thread somewhere you feel is more fitting?

It's your thread so it is probably best if you decide where you would like it to go, and contact Sy Borg. She is involved in the thread discussion so she will probably have seen what I wrote anyway. However, one thing which I do wonder is if it is a trauma-swappihg thread it may be a bit more discreet and private here, rather than one which may get into the swordfight battles of philosophy. When I disclose personal experiences I often prefer to do so in places which are not part of the front page, often on threads which are partially faded, because they feel safer spaces.

[JackDaydream]

This is (quite unfairly ) extracted from a discussion on another thread, but the idea intrigues me.

Actually, my guess is that a high percentage of those interested in philosophy have undergone significant trauma in their tender years.

If anyone actually reads this, perhaps they would be good enough to add a simple reaction to the suggestion that we might have been traumatised early on, and that might even be a reason why we are interested in philosophy?

For myself, I underwent trauma in my early childhood, but I'm not sure if it contributed to my love of serious and considered thought (philosophy).

This is an extremely interesting discussion and it may be unfortunate that it is in the lounge. Several months ago I wrote a thread on trauma and the emotions, and even though my recent thread on good, evil and suffering is placed in the philosophy of religion, because I was trying to frame it within philosophy, the issue of suffering and its relevance to philosophy is one of my areas of interest. It is also related to mental health, psychology and as Marc Almond of the band, Soft Cell, wrote, 'The Art of Falling Apart.' It may be also be the role of the shaman, as the 'wounded healer', as the person who enters into what has sometimes been described as 'the dark night of the soul'. In this respect, I would argue that the traumatised and the broken may go into the wilderness and strangelands, with the possibility of bringing forth possible gems of philosophical wisdom.

I put this topic in the lounge because it started out as being fairly trivial. But now it has, perhaps, turned into a trauma-swapping party, and become a little more serious, as you describe.

If you're convincing enough, you might persuade Sy Borg, a Moderator, to move the thread somewhere you feel is more fitting?

I accidentally sent you a reply to Sy borg because I am outside, so please see the post above for my reply.

[Pattern-chaser]

However, one thing which I do wonder is if it is a trauma-swappihg thread it may be a bit more discreet and private here, rather than one which may get into the swordfight battles of philosophy. When I disclose personal experiences I often prefer to do so in places which are not part of the front page, often on threads which are partially faded, because they feel safer spaces.

Personally, I'm not bothered about most things, in terms of other people knowing them. The things I prefer to keep private, I never talk about online. Ever. That way, I feel thoroughly safe and secure. But I see your point, and offer my thanks for your concern.

[JackDaydream]

However, one thing which I do wonder is if it is a trauma-swappihg thread it may be a bit more discreet and private here, rather than one which may get into the swordfight battles of philosophy. When I disclose personal experiences I often prefer to do so in places which are not part of the front page, often on threads which are partially faded, because they feel safer spaces.

Personally, I'm not bothered about most things, in terms of other people knowing them. The things I prefer to keep private, I never talk about online. Ever. That way, I feel thoroughly safe and secure. But I see your point, and offer my thanks for your concern.

The first time I wrote on TPF I self-disclosed personal experience in a big way and I was fortunate that the couple of people I was interacting with treated what I said with sensitivity and respect. However, after that, I thought, this is a philosophy site and I really found it because I wanted to discuss idea and I am far more cautious after my initial crash landing. At times, I do share some experiences but what I am most wary of is going off topic. So, in a way, this thread while being about traumatised philosophers may be some kind of space for ventilating or sharing.

One question which I wonder about is why some people have more traumas or dramas in life than others. To some extent I do ask myself is it mindset which leads to certain experiences in outer life? I seem to live in a web of dramas or synchronicities. For example, just over a week ago when I was so stressed out by moving the kitchen ceiling in the old place collapsed.

I have wondered about the idea of karma at times, although not necessarily in it's most crude form as punishment or reward. It is the law of cause and effect. If anything, what I do query is whether consciousness itself has a role in what manifests in life experiences. Often, I struggle with too many dramas and would like more peaceful and even boring times. However, I do see so many experiences, including the unpleasant ones, as the background of primordial chaos from which I develop as a person and thinker.

[Pattern-chaser]

One question which I wonder about is why some people have more traumas or dramas in life than others.

Chance and luck. Swings and roundabouts. And so on...

[LuckyR]

One question which I wonder about is why some people have more traumas or dramas in life than others.

Chance and luck. Swings and roundabouts. And so on...

Better lucky than good. Hence my moniker.