Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

[EricPH]

All the time we blame other people for our problems, we don't have to blame ourselves. We have more control when we try and change ourselves, rather than try and change others.

After 37 years of marriage we have taken it in turns to be the problem. If the relationship is worth fighting for, then you find ways to forgive and move on.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is definitely truth in this observation. It isn't the case in every situation, but it is more often than most casual observers would suppose. Of course this is common knowledge to a student of psychology.

[Sushan]

All the time we blame other people for our problems, we don't have to blame ourselves. We have more control when we try and change ourselves, rather than try and change others.

After 37 years of marriage we have taken it in turns to be the problem. If the relationship is worth fighting for, then you find ways to forgive and move on.

I do not have that much experience in a marriage life. So I think you are correct on that based on your experience. But after we change in every possible way, if the problem still lies there, then we have to think that the problem is not in ourselves, or atleast not in our control.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is definitely truth in this observation. It isn't the case in every situation, but it is more often than most casual observers would suppose. Of course this is common knowledge to a student of psychology.

Is this applicable to morbid jealousy as well (my example can be partly connected to this)? If I feel like my partner is cheating on me, should I check her purse, or should I sit somewhere and check my own mind for lustful thoughts about ladies that I meet in my workplace?

[JackDaydream]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

Seeing faults in another as opposed to in oneself can be one of the biggest blindspots. It is present in all human relationships but can be magnified in the sexual relationship due to their significance. It is understood in psychology as projection, although it is likely that many don't wish to acknowledge it. To be aware of it may mean that someone has made a start towards overcoming it.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

Seeing faults in another as opposed to in oneself can be one of the biggest blindspots. It is present in all human relationships but can be magnified in the sexual relationship due to their significance. It is understood in psychology as projection, although it is likely that many don't wish to acknowledge it. To be aware of it may mean that someone has made a start towards overcoming it.

Accepting one's fault is the first step in correcting one's ways. Always thinking "I am correct but my partner is wrong" will do no good. But the extreme end of the opposite, always thinking and accepting "I am at fault" will do no good either, and it can be even depressing as well.

[stevie]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is no use of speculating about "own" or "other" sources of cognitions as long as the material basis of the cognition process as such isn't understood.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is definitely truth in this observation. It isn't the case in every situation, but it is more often than most casual observers would suppose. Of course this is common knowledge to a student of psychology.

Is this applicable to morbid jealousy as well (my example can be partly connected to this)? If I feel like my partner is cheating on me, should I check her purse, or should I sit somewhere and check my own mind for lustful thoughts about ladies that I meet in my workplace?

There is a difference (separation) between what a subject feels internally and what they communicate to another.

To use your example, if you feel that your partner is cheating, the source of that feeling is likely external to you, ie it is the behavior of your partner. Go check it out. OTOH, when someone is actively cheating, they will use a psychological crutch to compensate for this by accusing their partner of cheating.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

Your partner becomes a mirror reflecting disowned parts of you. Instead of saying, “I feel angry,” you burst out with, “You are angry at me.” You experience sexual attraction to a colleague but accuse your partner of lusting after their administrative assistant. You feel unfulfilled, sensing something is missing in your life, so when your beloved enters the room, you look at them and say, “Is something wrong? You don’t seem happy.”

(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is no use of speculating about "own" or "other" sources of cognitions as long as the material basis of the cognition process as such isn't understood.

As far as I know we have not yet discovered the molecular basis of love. But don't we love our parents, friends, and wives/husbands? Sometimes complete understanding is not a dire necessity.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD



(Location 240 - Kindle version)

This author suggests that issues that we see as related to our partners are more or less our own problems (or missing pieces) that we relate to the other when we express it. In simple words, if we say "you are cheating on me" it implies that "I am cheating (or may willing to do so) on you".

What are your thoughts on this concept? Are we always at fault but not our partners?

There is definitely truth in this observation. It isn't the case in every situation, but it is more often than most casual observers would suppose. Of course this is common knowledge to a student of psychology.

Is this applicable to morbid jealousy as well (my example can be partly connected to this)? If I feel like my partner is cheating on me, should I check her purse, or should I sit somewhere and check my own mind for lustful thoughts about ladies that I meet in my workplace?

There is a difference (separation) between what a subject feels internally and what they communicate to another.

To use your example, if you feel that your partner is cheating, the source of that feeling is likely external to you, ie it is the behavior of your partner. Go check it out. OTOH, when someone is actively cheating, they will use a psychological crutch to compensate for this by accusing their partner of cheating.

I agree with the feeling that one can get by the change of behaviour of his/her partner, that he/she is cheating. But do all the cheating husbands/wives accuse their partners on infidelity? No, some (or can say even many) take care of the partner as they used to do, or some even increase the care and affection (maybe just the face value) to hide their own secrets.

[intentes_pupil]

[...]
What are your thoughts on this concept? [...]

One of the books that had the most impact in my life so far is "Nonviolent Communication" by Marshall Rosenberg.

The key of this book is to start with the premise that empathy is a natural human feature and therefore everyone is able to give, feel empathy. This is used as the starting point to relate with other human beings from "the heart".

The pillars of communication here are:

1. Observation
2. Needs
3. Feelings
4. Wishes/Petitions

In order to answer your question we must first understand some key concepts of these pillars:

1. Observation:
- differentiate observation (what can be objectively described) from a judgement.

2. Needs:
- Needs are universal. Everybody has the same needs. Only the degree differ.

3. Feelings:
- All feelings are real and give us information of some kind.
- A person/situation/action can be the trigger of our feelings, but the trigger is not responsible for that. We only are responsible of our own feelings.

4. Wishes/petition:
- Ask yourself what do you need in order to fulfill your unsatisfied need.
- Differentiate petition from demand.

In this sense, a conflict results from a situation in which your needs (or somebody else's) are not being satisfied. The identification of the objective trigger (observation), your unsatisfied needs and the feelings that arouse on you due to that experience are key to find a strategy, a wish, a petition that has the objective of fulfilling your needs (optimally all parts in the conflict).

I tried to summarize this as intelligible as possible.
But for further discussion, we can talk privately, open another feed or I would suggest just to read the book (it's really worthy).

Now, to your example:

Jealousy has for me two possible meanings:

1. The partner is doing something that might put the relationship in danger (for me relationship meaning the agreements stablished between two people). Therefore Jealousy is here an indicator of anger, fear (of loss) and a need for security (our boundaries/agreements are being trespassed or put in danger and the result might be personal/emotional loss).

Being able to identify those needs and feelings will help approach your partner, express what you have objectively seen that triggered your anger and explain what your needs are, what is important for you and why you are worried about loosing that.
Expressing what we observe without judging avoids that the other person reacts defensively. Expressing our feelings and needs result in a better chance that the other receives our words empathically.

2. The partner is doing something that does not represent any danger for the relationship but we make assumptions that lead to the arousal of anger and fear. In this case I understand that jealousy is giving us valuable information about our INSECURITIES.

This can be very enriching if we make the effort of reflection about ourselves. What is that insecurity coming from? What does it mean to us? How is that affecting our life?

In this case we can approach our partner explaining what we observed. What this observation triggered in us and how that relates to our insecurity. Here we can as for understanding, support, warmth or help to reflect ourselves and find out what the insecurities might be.


So I agree with the argument that everything comes from ourselves. We are the very only responsible agent for our own feelings even though the trigger is always an external factor.

[Maryam]

Maybe what we do not give ourselves; we want to have from others. That's why opposites attract. If we are well-fed by ourselves; why will we get much disturbed by what other person is doing and if he is doing the same what we are doing to ourselves!

[Sushan]

Maybe what we do not give ourselves; we want to have from others. That's why opposites attract. If we are well-fed by ourselves; why will we get much disturbed by what other person is doing and if he is doing the same what we are doing to ourselves!

We all have a picture of an ideal life, which most of us may never have. But when we see someone who is close to 'our' ideal picture we simply long to be like him/her. Sometimes the feeling can become jealousy. Yet, I am not sure whether we get attracted to them.

If we think of our partners, do we look for what we do not have in them?

[Sushan]

[...]
What are your thoughts on this concept? [...]

One of the books that had the most impact in my life so far is "Nonviolent Communication" by Marshall Rosenberg.

The key of this book is to start with the premise that empathy is a natural human feature and therefore everyone is able to give, feel empathy. This is used as the starting point to relate with other human beings from "the heart".

The pillars of communication here are:

1. Observation
2. Needs
3. Feelings
4. Wishes/Petitions

In order to answer your question we must first understand some key concepts of these pillars:

1. Observation:
- differentiate observation (what can be objectively described) from a judgement.

2. Needs:
- Needs are universal. Everybody has the same needs. Only the degree differ.

3. Feelings:
- All feelings are real and give us information of some kind.
- A person/situation/action can be the trigger of our feelings, but the trigger is not responsible for that. We only are responsible of our own feelings.

4. Wishes/petition:
- Ask yourself what do you need in order to fulfill your unsatisfied need.
- Differentiate petition from demand.

In this sense, a conflict results from a situation in which your needs (or somebody else's) are not being satisfied. The identification of the objective trigger (observation), your unsatisfied needs and the feelings that arouse on you due to that experience are key to find a strategy, a wish, a petition that has the objective of fulfilling your needs (optimally all parts in the conflict).

I tried to summarize this as intelligible as possible.
But for further discussion, we can talk privately, open another feed or I would suggest just to read the book (it's really worthy).

Now, to your example:

Jealousy has for me two possible meanings:

1. The partner is doing something that might put the relationship in danger (for me relationship meaning the agreements stablished between two people). Therefore Jealousy is here an indicator of anger, fear (of loss) and a need for security (our boundaries/agreements are being trespassed or put in danger and the result might be personal/emotional loss).

Being able to identify those needs and feelings will help approach your partner, express what you have objectively seen that triggered your anger and explain what your needs are, what is important for you and why you are worried about loosing that.
Expressing what we observe without judging avoids that the other person reacts defensively. Expressing our feelings and needs result in a better chance that the other receives our words empathically.

2. The partner is doing something that does not represent any danger for the relationship but we make assumptions that lead to the arousal of anger and fear. In this case I understand that jealousy is giving us valuable information about our INSECURITIES.

This can be very enriching if we make the effort of reflection about ourselves. What is that insecurity coming from? What does it mean to us? How is that affecting our life?

In this case we can approach our partner explaining what we observed. What this observation triggered in us and how that relates to our insecurity. Here we can as for understanding, support, warmth or help to reflect ourselves and find out what the insecurities might be.


So I agree with the argument that everything comes from ourselves. We are the very only responsible agent for our own feelings even though the trigger is always an external factor.

Thank you for the in detail explanation. I agree that although the trigges are external our feelings are internal. So how to handle our feelings is up to us and it is a skill that we have to develop.

Yet, in a scenario in which you catch your partner red handed while cheating on you, will you be able to express your observations just as they are, without coating them with your feelings? I know I cannot do that since I am a mundane human being with mundane thoughts and feelings.

If we keep aside the personal part, even the society expects you to react in a certain way when you catch your partner cheating on you. If the expected reaction does not come from you they will interpret it in various ways, and you will be unaccepted and disrespected in the society as well. We are no longer individuals, but social beings. So many factors have to be considered in every situation.