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[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

“I can’t stand my mother, so I raised my daughter just the opposite of how my mother raised me.”........“And now my daughter is just like my mother.”

(Location 126 - Kindle version)

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

“I can’t stand my mother, so I raised my daughter just the opposite of how my mother raised me.”........“And now my daughter is just like my mother.”

(Location 126 - Kindle version)

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

Setting aside the reality that genetics will dictate a large portion of how a child will turn out, this question is an excellent example of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). If the parent has a poor understanding of how what their parents did impacted them, they are unlikely to be able to translate whatever their parents did into an effective template on how to raise their own children. OTOH, if they can draw an accurate relationship between the two, perhaps they can.

[Pattern-chaser]

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

If we can really see the ways in which our parents failed, and the ways in which they didn't, then we can improve on what they managed. But it is my experience and belief that most of us are too deeply involved to judge fairly how our parents did. We have all kinds of childish misunderstandings that we mostly grow out of, but some childhood images/memories are just too ingrained to ignore, even though they're (sometimes badly) mistaken.

In practice, it's often difficult or impossible for us to improve on our parents; we can only do our best, and hope it's good enough.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

“I can’t stand my mother, so I raised my daughter just the opposite of how my mother raised me.”........“And now my daughter is just like my mother.”

(Location 126 - Kindle version)

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

Setting aside the reality that genetics will dictate a large portion of how a child will turn out, this question is an excellent example of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). If the parent has a poor understanding of how what their parents did impacted them, they are unlikely to be able to translate whatever their parents did into an effective template on how to raise their own children. OTOH, if they can draw an accurate relationship between the two, perhaps they can.

Genetics will always have an impact in a child's growth. But a significant impact will come from his/her parents as well.

Yes, a parent may not understand what his/her parents exactly did in their parenting and how that impacted his/her current status. But if he/she raise his/her kid in a totally opposite manner, shouldn't the final result be pleasing in his/her eyes, given that he/she believed that he/she should have been better if his/her parents had different parenting means?

[Sushan]

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

If we can really see the ways in which our parents failed, and the ways in which they didn't, then we can improve on what they managed. But it is my experience and belief that most of us are too deeply involved to judge fairly how our parents did. We have all kinds of childish misunderstandings that we mostly grow out of, but some childhood images/memories are just too ingrained to ignore, even though they're (sometimes badly) mistaken.

In practice, it's often difficult or impossible for us to improve on our parents; we can only do our best, and hope it's good enough.

I agree that we may not be able to truly understand that mistakes of our parents. And we may be biased in our judgement because of our beliefs of being mistreated in our past. But people learn from mistakes and experience. We can learn from others' experiences as well. Then why is it not applicable to this particular scenario?

[EricPH]

Sadly, in the UK, when a child reaches 15, about half of them are not living with both their bilogical parents. The trend indicates that many parents don't seem to have a good relationship themselves. Sadly this is not a good start for the next generation to learn from.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD

“I can’t stand my mother, so I raised my daughter just the opposite of how my mother raised me.”........“And now my daughter is just like my mother.”

(Location 126 - Kindle version)

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

Setting aside the reality that genetics will dictate a large portion of how a child will turn out, this question is an excellent example of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). If the parent has a poor understanding of how what their parents did impacted them, they are unlikely to be able to translate whatever their parents did into an effective template on how to raise their own children. OTOH, if they can draw an accurate relationship between the two, perhaps they can.

Genetics will always have an impact in a child's growth. But a significant impact will come from his/her parents as well.

Yes, a parent may not understand what his/her parents exactly did in their parenting and how that impacted his/her current status. But if he/she raise his/her kid in a totally opposite manner, shouldn't the final result be pleasing in his/her eyes, given that he/she believed that he/she should have been better if his/her parents had different parenting means?

No, because parenting is not an either or proposition. There are an infinite number of ways to raise kids in between one way and it's opposite. So, while a different method likely would have been better, there is no data to say that among the numerous different ways, that the direct opposite as an individual technique, is better.

[Sushan]

Sadly, in the UK, when a child reaches 15, about half of them are not living with both their bilogical parents. The trend indicates that many parents don't seem to have a good relationship themselves. Sadly this is not a good start for the next generation to learn from.

I think people are becoming less and less skilled in relationships. Today's technological advancement also has a contribution to that. Whether children see or not this from their parents, I think the lack of social skills has already become a trend in the society, leading to more divorces and single parents.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the April 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, 2X2 on the Ark: Five Secrets of a Great Relationship by Mary J Giuffra, PhD



(Location 126 - Kindle version)

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

Setting aside the reality that genetics will dictate a large portion of how a child will turn out, this question is an excellent example of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). If the parent has a poor understanding of how what their parents did impacted them, they are unlikely to be able to translate whatever their parents did into an effective template on how to raise their own children. OTOH, if they can draw an accurate relationship between the two, perhaps they can.

Genetics will always have an impact in a child's growth. But a significant impact will come from his/her parents as well.

Yes, a parent may not understand what his/her parents exactly did in their parenting and how that impacted his/her current status. But if he/she raise his/her kid in a totally opposite manner, shouldn't the final result be pleasing in his/her eyes, given that he/she believed that he/she should have been better if his/her parents had different parenting means?

No, because patenting is not an either or proposition. There are an infinite number of ways to raise kids in between one way and it's opposite. So, while a different method likely would have been better, there is no data to say that among the numerous different ways, that the direct opposite as an individual technique, is better.

I agree. Methods cannot be totally opposed. Anyone can choose a thing or two that he/she did not like about his/her own parents and try to apply them differently to his/her own kids. So the result will be different, but not entirely opposite.

[Maryam]

The title says "avoid mistakes", but the author did almost everything reverse/opposite. This is not how it works!

Maybe this is how our relationship with our parents works; we are more judgmental about their relationship with us, others, and each other than any other person on Earth because here we involve the first and premature onset of emotions in our lives. We never become neutral to see what they did wrong and a lot of other things they did the best to us. Maybe we think they are guilty of bringing us into this cruel world.

Not raising your child like you were raised, you should become an observer without intervention as well as judgment to your memories and retain a lot of good things which happened to you in that era including improving bad things in your child's life. Moreover, as everyone has different needs or priorities; so do the children. Listen to the needs of your kid and try to fulfill them instead of being in the past trauma and preparing for your kid to say the same what you perceive about your parents.

[Sushan]

The title says "avoid mistakes", but the author did almost everything reverse/opposite. This is not how it works!

Maybe this is how our relationship with our parents works; we are more judgmental about their relationship with us, others, and each other than any other person on Earth because here we involve the first and premature onset of emotions in our lives. We never become neutral to see what they did wrong and a lot of other things they did the best to us. Maybe we think they are guilty of bringing us into this cruel world.

Not raising your child like you were raised, you should become an observer without intervention as well as judgment to your memories and retain a lot of good things which happened to you in that era including improving bad things in your child's life. Moreover, as everyone has different needs or priorities; so do the children. Listen to the needs of your kid and try to fulfill them instead of being in the past trauma and preparing for your kid to say the same what you perceive about your parents.

Parents should listen to the needs of their children. Sometimes the two parties may have different interests and different goals. For a better relationship parents should become good listeners. But should they do all what kids need? NO. Children always have childish thoughts and interests which may actually harm their growth and future. So it is up to the parents to guide and steer them correctly.

Yes, we can never be neutral about our parents' parenting since we were directly subjected to it. But after becoming adults, or even parents, then we can look back and think what might have changed if their parenting was different. And if we can apply the insight that we gain from it to raise our own kids I think we can get better results.

[LuckyR]

The title says "avoid mistakes", but the author did almost everything reverse/opposite. This is not how it works!

Maybe this is how our relationship with our parents works; we are more judgmental about their relationship with us, others, and each other than any other person on Earth because here we involve the first and premature onset of emotions in our lives. We never become neutral to see what they did wrong and a lot of other things they did the best to us. Maybe we think they are guilty of bringing us into this cruel world.

Not raising your child like you were raised, you should become an observer without intervention as well as judgment to your memories and retain a lot of good things which happened to you in that era including improving bad things in your child's life. Moreover, as everyone has different needs or priorities; so do the children. Listen to the needs of your kid and try to fulfill them instead of being in the past trauma and preparing for your kid to say the same what you perceive about your parents.

Parents should listen to the needs of their children. Sometimes the two parties may have different interests and different goals. For a better relationship parents should become good listeners. But should they do all what kids need? NO. Children always have childish thoughts and interests which may actually harm their growth and future. So it is up to the parents to guide and steer them correctly.

Yes, we can never be neutral about our parents' parenting since we were directly subjected to it. But after becoming adults, or even parents, then we can look back and think what might have changed if their parenting was different. And if we can apply the insight that we gain from it to raise our own kids I think we can get better results.

While parenting is multifactorial, for the purposes of this discussion usually what is being referred to is strict vs lenient. Currently, the form that poor parenting is commonly taking is too lenient in response to perceived strictness in one's own upbringing.

[Elephant]

Parents make mistakes in parenting. Their children note them as well. When they become adults, they tend to believe that their lives would have been better if their parents raised them differently. And some of them even try to raise their children in the manner opposite to their parents.

With your experience or speculations, is it a successful way to apply what one gained from experience into practice?

Yes, but do not rely on experience 100%. The mistake of the quoted example is that she was fixated at the negativity of how she raised by her mother that she failed to see that she was using the child as an experiment for her own satisfaction -- times have changed and influence outside the home plays a much bigger role than we expect.

[Gertie]

This Be The Verse
By Philip Larkin


They **** you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were **** up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

[intentes_pupil]

The title says "avoid mistakes", but the author did almost everything reverse/opposite. This is not how it works!

Maybe this is how our relationship with our parents works; we are more judgmental about their relationship with us, others, and each other than any other person on Earth because here we involve the first and premature onset of emotions in our lives. We never become neutral to see what they did wrong and a lot of other things they did the best to us. Maybe we think they are guilty of bringing us into this cruel world.

Not raising your child like you were raised, you should become an observer without intervention as well as judgment to your memories and retain a lot of good things which happened to you in that era including improving bad things in your child's life. Moreover, as everyone has different needs or priorities; so do the children. Listen to the needs of your kid and try to fulfill them instead of being in the past trauma and preparing for your kid to say the same what you perceive about your parents.

I totally agree. I think the key is to develop EMPATHY instead of trying to do better than our parents did. Everybody feels the same and everybody has the same needs, the difference is how strong those are. Therefore, If we are able to empathise and identify the needs and feeling of the others, if we listen from the heart and make our goal to truly listen (our children, our parents, our neighbours) we will be on the path to make a deeper connection and therefore closer to avoid the "mistakes" that our parents "committed".

I wouldn't say that our parents "made mistakes". This is too judgmental from my point of view. I argue that most people are not trained on identifying feelings and needs. Therefore most parents often fail to act in consequence and aligned to their children's needs.

This "mistakes" are the direct consequence therefore of a child having a need, a parent not being able to identify it, and an action that is not aligned with the child's need. This causes a struggle, but not a mistake from my point of view. The struggle or bad consequences for the child are the consequence of parent's ignorance or what I call "empathy illiteracy".

To reinforce my argument, let's do the following mental exercise: let's call C = child, P=parent, A=action

1. C has a certain need.
2. P is not empathy literate
3. P commits A (for whatever reason)
4. A is not aligned to C's needs

Consequence: STRUGLE

But, let's asume now in another case, that:
4. A IS ALIGNED to C's needs.

In this case P is still "empathy-illiterate", but A does not cause struggle!

Therefore, calling the first case a mistake assumes that P is empathy Literate, knows what C needs and commits A (not aligned with C's needs) anyway!

This intentionality is for me not obvious. Anybody could argue also that if C had a different need, A could fit the situation and there would be no struggle!

Therefore, I argue that the issue with parenting is the incapacity of most people to listen empathically (meaning reading/identifying children's needs).

If we only focus on trying to fulfil the needs that our parents didn't, we might not fulfil our children's ones!!! It is therefore obvious that the chances of "commiting a mistake" are REALLY HIGH!