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[Sushan]

This topic is about the January 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Emotional Intelligence At Work: A Personal Operating System for Career Success by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt

Never Forget: If You Have the Desire You Almost Certainly Have the Talent.

(Location 327 of Kindle version)

Seemingly the author has twisted the popular saying "If there is a will, there is a way", and had formed the above motivational message. The ancient saying is almost always true since it does not specify how the 'way' should be.

But can that same probability be applied to this new relationship as well? Desire (or passion) and talent, do they have a similar kind of relationship?

[JackDaydream]

@Sushan

It is an interesting question as to what extent we can choose whether or not to have talent according to passion. Sometimes, I have tried to force myself to do things which I didn't like at all and failed miserably. This included most sports and it is possible that this is because I don't enjoy sport. Also, I was occasionally expected to run a baking group at work and I struggled and got in a mess, and it was probably a mixture of lack of experience and about disliking baking.

As far as development of passions into talent it may be that will plays a part, but it may be that talents have their roots in childhood. This could involve natural leaning and encouragement. If I wished to become a rock guitarist right now, having not ever learned to play an instrument, it is unlikely that I would develop into a professional. But, of course, it is possible to try some new task and get a pleasant surprise to see how well it goes, and it could be that passion creates the mindset for this to happen.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the January 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Emotional Intelligence At Work: A Personal Operating System for Career Success by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt

Never Forget: If You Have the Desire You Almost Certainly Have the Talent.

(Location 327 of Kindle version)

Seemingly the author has twisted the popular saying "If there is a will, there is a way", and had formed the above motivational message. The ancient saying is almost always true since it does not specify how the 'way' should be.

But can that same probability be applied to this new relationship as well? Desire (or passion) and talent, do they have a similar kind of relationship?

It is totally true... but, applies to the action, not getting paid to perform the action. If I am passionate about dancing, I can almost certainly become an amateur dancer, however I am statistically unlikely to become a professional dancer, but that is an economic problem, not a philosophical one.

[Sushan]

@Sushan

It is an interesting question as to what extent we can choose whether or not to have talent according to passion. Sometimes, I have tried to force myself to do things which I didn't like at all and failed miserably. This included most sports and it is possible that this is because I don't enjoy sport. Also, I was occasionally expected to run a baking group at work and I struggled and got in a mess, and it was probably a mixture of lack of experience and about disliking baking.

As far as development of passions into talent it may be that will plays a part, but it may be that talents have their roots in childhood. This could involve natural leaning and encouragement. If I wished to become a rock guitarist right now, having not ever learned to play an instrument, it is unlikely that I would develop into a professional. But, of course, it is possible to try some new task and get a pleasant surprise to see how well it goes, and it could be that passion creates the mindset for this to happen.

I agree with you. Talent need to be inherent, or continously practised for years since childhood to be a master in it. This is an obvious fact in music especially. But a strong will is necessary too to be engaged in that continous practice, to reach the intended goal despite many failures and hardships that will come in the path. A strong will is necessary to develop talents, but talents should have been there first, but not the other way around.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the January 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Emotional Intelligence At Work: A Personal Operating System for Career Success by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt

Never Forget: If You Have the Desire You Almost Certainly Have the Talent.

(Location 327 of Kindle version)

Seemingly the author has twisted the popular saying "If there is a will, there is a way", and had formed the above motivational message. The ancient saying is almost always true since it does not specify how the 'way' should be.

But can that same probability be applied to this new relationship as well? Desire (or passion) and talent, do they have a similar kind of relationship?

It is totally true... but, applies to the action, not getting paid to perform the action. If I am passionate about dancing, I can almost certainly become an amateur dancer, however I am statistically unlikely to become a professional dancer, but that is an economic problem, not a philosophical one.

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

[JackDaydream]

@Sushan
What I am wondering about is passion and talent in philosophy. How does that work? Does the love of philosophy lead to any kind of expertise? Do some people have a gift for thinking in a philosophical way. It may be that reading and writing practice aid, but that doesn't turn us into being someone like Kant, Nietzsche or Wittgenstein. So, it could be asked where does the talent which makes for astonishing talent come from. Were these writers of such a new nature that they forced themselves to pursue their passion and talent to the point where it really counted? It could be that passion and talent are both important and most of us do not push ourselves hard enough to exploit either of them to the maximum potential.

It may be about the fullest use of both, even if one is stronger than the other, and that most of us will probably never push ourselves to the maximum stretching of either one, because the comforts of fitting in to the norms of fitting in are so much easier.This applies in philosophy and most aspects of creativity, and it may be that most of us are not prepared to go the extra way in pushing talent or passion to the extreme where it may count because this would require such efforts, like suffering in the form of bleeding. Most people, including philosophers don't wish to have to be wounded and bleed, and give from the passion of the soul, in order to come up with ideas and inspiration which may be important for others. I am not even sure that the world of today would be open to a Nietzsche or a Sartre, or such talent and passion in the extreme.

[LuckyR]

This topic is about the January 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Emotional Intelligence At Work: A Personal Operating System for Career Success by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt

Never Forget: If You Have the Desire You Almost Certainly Have the Talent.

(Location 327 of Kindle version)

Seemingly the author has twisted the popular saying "If there is a will, there is a way", and had formed the above motivational message. The ancient saying is almost always true since it does not specify how the 'way' should be.

But can that same probability be applied to this new relationship as well? Desire (or passion) and talent, do they have a similar kind of relationship?

It is totally true... but, applies to the action, not getting paid to perform the action. If I am passionate about dancing, I can almost certainly become an amateur dancer, however I am statistically unlikely to become a professional dancer, but that is an economic problem, not a philosophical one.

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

But what is a "high level"? A proficient amateur is my definition. If you mean top 5% in the World, that is statistically impossible.

[CalebB]

If you enjoy doing something, you're probably talented in it. A good sign of talent is performing well compared to others who do the same.
If you are talented in something, chances are that your business would be successful if it depends on your talent. You would have much greater stamina and stress resistance. You would enjoy earning your money.

However, its possible to be talented in something and not enjoy it. You could be applying your skills to the wrong career, even though it is in the same category of intelligence. You might hate programming robots, but love making websites. Both involve writing code, but one allows you to express yourself differently. You could be excellent at being a lawyer because you're good at philosophy, but you hate it because you're prefer to write all day.

[LuckyR]

If you enjoy doing something, you're probably talented in it. A good sign of talent is performing well compared to others who do the same.
If you are talented in something, chances are that your business would be successful if it depends on your talent. You would have much greater stamina and stress resistance. You would enjoy earning your money.

However, its possible to be talented in something and not enjoy it. You could be applying your skills to the wrong career, even though it is in the same category of intelligence. You might hate programming robots, but love making websites. Both involve writing code, but one allows you to express yourself differently. You could be excellent at being a lawyer because you're good at philosophy, but you hate it because you're prefer to write all day.

True, yet unimpressive. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy in that proficiency breeds desire, thus folks become passionate about what they are talented in, rather than the opposite (which is the subject of the OP).

[Sushan]

@Sushan
What I am wondering about is passion and talent in philosophy. How does that work? Does the love of philosophy lead to any kind of expertise? Do some people have a gift for thinking in a philosophical way. It may be that reading and writing practice aid, but that doesn't turn us into being someone like Kant, Nietzsche or Wittgenstein. So, it could be asked where does the talent which makes for astonishing talent come from. Were these writers of such a new nature that they forced themselves to pursue their passion and talent to the point where it really counted? It could be that passion and talent are both important and most of us do not push ourselves hard enough to exploit either of them to the maximum potential.

It may be about the fullest use of both, even if one is stronger than the other, and that most of us will probably never push ourselves to the maximum stretching of either one, because the comforts of fitting in to the norms of fitting in are so much easier.This applies in philosophy and most aspects of creativity, and it may be that most of us are not prepared to go the extra way in pushing talent or passion to the extreme where it may count because this would require such efforts, like suffering in the form of bleeding. Most people, including philosophers don't wish to have to be wounded and bleed, and give from the passion of the soul, in order to come up with ideas and inspiration which may be important for others. I am not even sure that the world of today would be open to a Nietzsche or a Sartre, or such talent and passion in the extreme.

Modern day philosophers have combined the subject with many other areas like science, literature, etc. So it is hard to determine what is exclusively philosophical. As far as I believe philosophy should go in hand with thought ruminating. Philosophy should open others' minds to new extents. It is up to others to check the validity of such new thoughts. To think new things a philosopher should have both passion and talent. But to convey them he/she should definitely have the necessary amount of courage.

[Sushan]

This topic is about the January 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Emotional Intelligence At Work: A Personal Operating System for Career Success by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt


(Location 327 of Kindle version)

Seemingly the author has twisted the popular saying "If there is a will, there is a way", and had formed the above motivational message. The ancient saying is almost always true since it does not specify how the 'way' should be.

But can that same probability be applied to this new relationship as well? Desire (or passion) and talent, do they have a similar kind of relationship?

It is totally true... but, applies to the action, not getting paid to perform the action. If I am passionate about dancing, I can almost certainly become an amateur dancer, however I am statistically unlikely to become a professional dancer, but that is an economic problem, not a philosophical one.

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

But what is a "high level"? A proficient amateur is my definition. If you mean top 5% in the World, that is statistically impossible.

We do not see many famous, successful figures in the world. And those who remain there are included in your 5%. So it is practically impossible for all of us to reach there, I agree. But as per this author, if someone wishes to be in that 5%, and he/she is so passionate about that target, then the required talent will be there.

[Sushan]

If you enjoy doing something, you're probably talented in it. A good sign of talent is performing well compared to others who do the same.
If you are talented in something, chances are that your business would be successful if it depends on your talent. You would have much greater stamina and stress resistance. You would enjoy earning your money.

However, its possible to be talented in something and not enjoy it. You could be applying your skills to the wrong career, even though it is in the same category of intelligence. You might hate programming robots, but love making websites. Both involve writing code, but one allows you to express yourself differently. You could be excellent at being a lawyer because you're good at philosophy, but you hate it because you're prefer to write all day.

Having the talent already, and enjoying it (or not) is an understandable concept. Everyone of us do not get the chance to do what we like, and are not talented in the fields that we like. But here the passion has come before talent, which is quite questionable as per my understanding. If you love something so much, will you acquire the necessary talents as well?

[LuckyR]

It is totally true... but, applies to the action, not getting paid to perform the action. If I am passionate about dancing, I can almost certainly become an amateur dancer, however I am statistically unlikely to become a professional dancer, but that is an economic problem, not a philosophical one.

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

But what is a "high level"? A proficient amateur is my definition. If you mean top 5% in the World, that is statistically impossible.

We do not see many famous, successful figures in the world. And those who remain there are included in your 5%. So it is practically impossible for all of us to reach there, I agree. But as per this author, if someone wishes to be in that 5%, and he/she is so passionate about that target, then the required talent will be there.

Didn't you just say that "it is practically impossible"? 100% of people can't be in the top 5%. The author has it backwards, if you have the talent to be in the top 10%, within that group of the talented, the top half (the top 5%) are going to be the most passionate among the top 10.

[Sculptor1]

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

But what is a "high level"? A proficient amateur is my definition. If you mean top 5% in the World, that is statistically impossible.

We do not see many famous, successful figures in the world. And those who remain there are included in your 5%. So it is practically impossible for all of us to reach there, I agree. But as per this author, if someone wishes to be in that 5%, and he/she is so passionate about that target, then the required talent will be there.

Didn't you just say that "it is practically impossible"? 100% of people can't be in the top 5%. The author has it backwards, if you have the talent to be in the top 10%, within that group of the talented, the top half (the top 5%) are going to be the most passionate among the top 10.

The statement is meaningless.
It is numerically impossible for 100% of the people to be in the top 5%, in the same way it is impossble for the top 5% to be the bottom 5%.
Reminds me of the moment that GW Bush learned with horror that approximately 50% of children were below average intelligence.

[Sushan]

Let's keep the economical part aside because it is not certain for even a professional dancer for getting well paid. But I think here the author is speaking about complete success and certainly not about stopping mid way. One should have the desire to reach the top and the required talent will definitely be of a high level. And as per this author such a relationship should exist, which I doubt very much.

But what is a "high level"? A proficient amateur is my definition. If you mean top 5% in the World, that is statistically impossible.

We do not see many famous, successful figures in the world. And those who remain there are included in your 5%. So it is practically impossible for all of us to reach there, I agree. But as per this author, if someone wishes to be in that 5%, and he/she is so passionate about that target, then the required talent will be there.

Didn't you just say that "it is practically impossible"? 100% of people can't be in the top 5%. The author has it backwards, if you have the talent to be in the top 10%, within that group of the talented, the top half (the top 5%) are going to be the most passionate among the top 10.

Apparently the only way this can be applied logically is backwards. But as per the author, desire comes first. And if you have enough desire, then you will have the necessary talent, which should ultimately place the 100% in the top 5%, and that is indeed impossible. Seemingly the author is mentioning something impossible as a possibility.