Philosophy Discussion Forums

This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

And I would like to further broaden the area of discussion. Are people ready enough to accept psychiatric conditions and disorders as another type of illness? Or does it carry the same stigma that it had several decades back?

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

I think it there is no cause of not seeking help but there is a cause of seeking help. I.e. if someone seeks help then either due to unbearable degree of suffering or due to being pushed/persuaded by others to seek help.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

And I would like to further broaden the area of discussion. Are people ready enough to accept psychiatric conditions and disorders as another type of illness? Or does it carry the same stigma that it had several decades back?

In my experience folk's receptivity to seeking help with anxiety is very different depending on their social group. Some brag about being "in therapy" like it is a status symbol, others feel folks in therapy are "loony" and would never seek it out. Insurance coverage is typically good for meds but quite low for therapy.

stevie wrote: ↑November 11th, 2021, 2:33 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

I think it there is no cause of not seeking help but there is a cause of seeking help. I.e. if someone seeks help then either due to unbearable degree of suffering or due to being pushed/persuaded by others to seek help.

People seek for help due to various reasons. We have to see if there is a reason for them to stay till someone else persuade them to seek help. Maybe some of them believe that they don't need help. Some might be just ignoring the condition. But I am certain that many tend to prevent going to a psychiatrist simply because of the stigma that they expect to see in others' eyes just because they see a psychiatrist.

LuckyR wrote: ↑November 11th, 2021, 3:04 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

And I would like to further broaden the area of discussion. Are people ready enough to accept psychiatric conditions and disorders as another type of illness? Or does it carry the same stigma that it had several decades back?

In my experience folk's receptivity to seeking help with anxiety is very different depending on their social group. Some brag about being "in therapy" like it is a status symbol, others feel folks in therapy are "loony" and would never seek it out. Insurance coverage is typically good for meds but quite low for therapy.

Anxiety is usually not thought as a psychiatric illness. So most of the time they need is simple counseling and that will cure it. As you said some love to brag that they are stressed due to the number of responsibilities that they carry. But I am not certain whether they will love to brag about being in therapy because that will indicate that they are broken at a point, and maybe seen as failures by theit peers.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2021, 2:14 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 11th, 2021, 2:33 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

I think it there is no cause of not seeking help but there is a cause of seeking help. I.e. if someone seeks help then either due to unbearable degree of suffering or due to being pushed/persuaded by others to seek help.

People seek for help due to various reasons. We have to see if there is a reason for them to stay till someone else persuade them to seek help. Maybe some of them believe that they don't need help. Some might be just ignoring the condition. But I am certain that many tend to prevent going to a psychiatrist simply because of the stigma that they expect to see in others' eyes just because they see a psychiatrist.

Maybe a feeling of "stigmatization" is relevant for some. I don't know. But to me what I've said appears more relevant.

stevie wrote: ↑November 14th, 2021, 2:15 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2021, 2:14 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 11th, 2021, 2:33 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide by Gustavo Kinrys, MD



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

I think it there is no cause of not seeking help but there is a cause of seeking help. I.e. if someone seeks help then either due to unbearable degree of suffering or due to being pushed/persuaded by others to seek help.

People seek for help due to various reasons. We have to see if there is a reason for them to stay till someone else persuade them to seek help. Maybe some of them believe that they don't need help. Some might be just ignoring the condition. But I am certain that many tend to prevent going to a psychiatrist simply because of the stigma that they expect to see in others' eyes just because they see a psychiatrist.

Maybe a feeling of "stigmatization" is relevant for some. I don't know. But to me what I've said appears more relevant.

This may be true when people wait for the maximum bearable limit and then deciding to see a doctor or necessary help. But why someone will wait till others persuade him/her? If that person sees it as a problem, yet decide not to seek for help, then there should be matters other than medical. This can include busy schedules and mere ignorance. But stigmatization should play some role in that too. What do you think?

Sushan wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:19 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 14th, 2021, 2:15 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2021, 2:14 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 11th, 2021, 2:33 am

I think it there is no cause of not seeking help but there is a cause of seeking help. I.e. if someone seeks help then either due to unbearable degree of suffering or due to being pushed/persuaded by others to seek help.

People seek for help due to various reasons. We have to see if there is a reason for them to stay till someone else persuade them to seek help. Maybe some of them believe that they don't need help. Some might be just ignoring the condition. But I am certain that many tend to prevent going to a psychiatrist simply because of the stigma that they expect to see in others' eyes just because they see a psychiatrist.

Maybe a feeling of "stigmatization" is relevant for some. I don't know. But to me what I've said appears more relevant.

This may be true when people wait for the maximum bearable limit and then deciding to see a doctor or necessary help. But why someone will wait till others persuade him/her? If that person sees it as a problem, yet decide not to seek for help, then there should be matters other than medical. This can include busy schedules and mere ignorance. But stigmatization should play some role in that too. What do you think?

'Waiting for' implies planning intention but when subjects suffer there usually is no such intention to wait for an unbearable degree involved. It just evolves depending on conditions. Usually the person will behave deviating from social norms so that others will take notice that there might be an issue and try to talk to this person. Or the suffering person will start to lament, i.e. make known her/his condition indirectly. That covers what I referred to with what I said.
The feeling of "stigmatization" you claim to be a reason for not seeking help appears too irrational to me given the general evolution of psychiatric issues that it just doesn't appear relevant to me. But no problem, people think differently.

stevie wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:35 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:19 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 14th, 2021, 2:15 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 13th, 2021, 2:14 am

People seek for help due to various reasons. We have to see if there is a reason for them to stay till someone else persuade them to seek help. Maybe some of them believe that they don't need help. Some might be just ignoring the condition. But I am certain that many tend to prevent going to a psychiatrist simply because of the stigma that they expect to see in others' eyes just because they see a psychiatrist.

Maybe a feeling of "stigmatization" is relevant for some. I don't know. But to me what I've said appears more relevant.

This may be true when people wait for the maximum bearable limit and then deciding to see a doctor or necessary help. But why someone will wait till others persuade him/her? If that person sees it as a problem, yet decide not to seek for help, then there should be matters other than medical. This can include busy schedules and mere ignorance. But stigmatization should play some role in that too. What do you think?

'Waiting for' implies planning intention but when subjects suffer there usually is no such intention to wait for an unbearable degree involved. It just evolves depending on conditions. Usually the person will behave deviating from social norms so that others will take notice that there might be an issue and try to talk to this person. Or the suffering person will start to lament, i.e. make known her/his condition indirectly. That covers what I referred to with what I said.
The feeling of "stigmatization" you claim to be a reason for not seeking help appears too irrational to me given the general evolution of psychiatric issues that it just doesn't appear relevant to me. But no problem, people think differently.

It is good if people are open minded enough to see psychiatric illnesses as any other illness. But from where I come people have not evolved to that level so far. Psychiatric patients as well as their families are cornered in the society oftentimes. So many of such people and their families tend to hide their conditions simply because of the stigmatization that it comes along with.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 1:13 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:35 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:19 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 14th, 2021, 2:15 am
Maybe a feeling of "stigmatization" is relevant for some. I don't know. But to me what I've said appears more relevant.

This may be true when people wait for the maximum bearable limit and then deciding to see a doctor or necessary help. But why someone will wait till others persuade him/her? If that person sees it as a problem, yet decide not to seek for help, then there should be matters other than medical. This can include busy schedules and mere ignorance. But stigmatization should play some role in that too. What do you think?

'Waiting for' implies planning intention but when subjects suffer there usually is no such intention to wait for an unbearable degree involved. It just evolves depending on conditions. Usually the person will behave deviating from social norms so that others will take notice that there might be an issue and try to talk to this person. Or the suffering person will start to lament, i.e. make known her/his condition indirectly. That covers what I referred to with what I said.
The feeling of "stigmatization" you claim to be a reason for not seeking help appears too irrational to me given the general evolution of psychiatric issues that it just doesn't appear relevant to me. But no problem, people think differently.

It is good if people are open minded enough to see psychiatric illnesses as any other illness. But from where I come people have not evolved to that level so far. Psychiatric patients as well as their families are cornered in the society oftentimes. So many of such people and their families tend to hide their conditions simply because of the stigmatization that it comes along with.

If you look at it a feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" can't be clearly separated and may be seen as just a manifestation of an aspect of the underlying anxiety issue. A feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" may also be seen as a manifestation of an aspect of an underlying self-disorder (disordered cognition of self and other). So it's always about the whole package, the mental disorder to be diagnosed and all manifestations of all the different aspects that may come along with it. There is a smooth transition between needing psychotherapy and needing psychiatric treatment which has to do with aggravation of tolerable symptoms.
The lack of 'open-mindedness' you are referring to can also be seen as a moderate, culturally supported mental disorder which is highly tolerated exactly because it is common within a collective.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, ]



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

And I would like to further broaden the area of discussion. Are people ready enough to accept psychiatric conditions and disorders as another type of illness? Or does it carry the same stigma that it had several decades back?

Stigmatisation might cause anxiety, but anxiety does not necessarily lead to stigmatisiation.

The fact that seeking help for mental problems migh have something to do with stigmatisation or the threat of it, but I think it is more likley to be an issue of cost and/or insurance.
Speaking to your GP is confidential so the issue of a stigma ought not to arise. Consulting a mental health professional is absurdly expensive with no guarentees of progress in a context where is serves the practicioner to NEVER offer a cure, since a cure means no more expensive consultations.

GPs wil often have a range of pills to offer as a first step, but I would think it better for you to try to become mindful of the reasons and triggers of anxiety rather than crush it with a drug.

stevie wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 2:00 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 1:13 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:35 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:19 am

This may be true when people wait for the maximum bearable limit and then deciding to see a doctor or necessary help. But why someone will wait till others persuade him/her? If that person sees it as a problem, yet decide not to seek for help, then there should be matters other than medical. This can include busy schedules and mere ignorance. But stigmatization should play some role in that too. What do you think?

'Waiting for' implies planning intention but when subjects suffer there usually is no such intention to wait for an unbearable degree involved. It just evolves depending on conditions. Usually the person will behave deviating from social norms so that others will take notice that there might be an issue and try to talk to this person. Or the suffering person will start to lament, i.e. make known her/his condition indirectly. That covers what I referred to with what I said.
The feeling of "stigmatization" you claim to be a reason for not seeking help appears too irrational to me given the general evolution of psychiatric issues that it just doesn't appear relevant to me. But no problem, people think differently.

It is good if people are open minded enough to see psychiatric illnesses as any other illness. But from where I come people have not evolved to that level so far. Psychiatric patients as well as their families are cornered in the society oftentimes. So many of such people and their families tend to hide their conditions simply because of the stigmatization that it comes along with.

If you look at it a feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" can't be clearly separated and may be seen as just a manifestation of an aspect of the underlying anxiety issue. A feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" may also be seen as a manifestation of an aspect of an underlying self-disorder (disordered cognition of self and other). So it's always about the whole package, the mental disorder to be diagnosed and all manifestations of all the different aspects that may come along with it. There is a smooth transition between needing psychotherapy and needing psychiatric treatment which has to do with aggravation of tolerable symptoms.
The lack of 'open-mindedness' you are referring to can also be seen as a moderate, culturally supported mental disorder which is highly tolerated exactly because it is common within a collective.

Culturally supported or religiously accepted norms are not considered as mental illnesses in psychiatry though they are clearly seen like such anomalies. So this lack of open mindedness will never be seen as an illness, so there won't be a cure as well.

I agree with your other opinion on stigmatization; feeling it as a part of the disordered cognition. In that case treating the illness will treat this feeling as well. But unfortunately it will be the main reason that will keep such patients from going for treatment, and this vicious cycle will go on.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:58 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 11:02 pm This topic is about the November 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, ]



There is a part where the author mentions that “most people will suffer from an anxiety disorder for at least ten years without seeking help”. Does it mean people living with anxiety disorder might also be suffering from stigmatization? Or something else is causing them not to seek help?

And I would like to further broaden the area of discussion. Are people ready enough to accept psychiatric conditions and disorders as another type of illness? Or does it carry the same stigma that it had several decades back?

Stigmatisation might cause anxiety, but anxiety does not necessarily lead to stigmatisiation.

The fact that seeking help for mental problems migh have something to do with stigmatisation or the threat of it, but I think it is more likley to be an issue of cost and/or insurance.
Speaking to your GP is confidential so the issue of a stigma ought not to arise. Consulting a mental health professional is absurdly expensive with no guarentees of progress in a context where is serves the practicioner to NEVER offer a cure, since a cure means no more expensive consultations.

GPs wil often have a range of pills to offer as a first step, but I would think it better for you to try to become mindful of the reasons and triggers of anxiety rather than crush it with a drug.

It is good if one can self asses the causes for his/her anxiety and self treat them amd overcome the issues. But I think majority will need the support of either a therapist or a clinician.

Yes, going to a GP is confidential. But if one goes to a consultant in psychiatry, then no one will think that particular patient is taking treatment for a cardiac problem. So if the stigmatization issue is there in that society, the particular patient won't be an exclusion from that.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 9:53 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 2:00 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 1:13 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 15th, 2021, 2:35 am
'Waiting for' implies planning intention but when subjects suffer there usually is no such intention to wait for an unbearable degree involved. It just evolves depending on conditions. Usually the person will behave deviating from social norms so that others will take notice that there might be an issue and try to talk to this person. Or the suffering person will start to lament, i.e. make known her/his condition indirectly. That covers what I referred to with what I said.
The feeling of "stigmatization" you claim to be a reason for not seeking help appears too irrational to me given the general evolution of psychiatric issues that it just doesn't appear relevant to me. But no problem, people think differently.

It is good if people are open minded enough to see psychiatric illnesses as any other illness. But from where I come people have not evolved to that level so far. Psychiatric patients as well as their families are cornered in the society oftentimes. So many of such people and their families tend to hide their conditions simply because of the stigmatization that it comes along with.

If you look at it a feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" can't be clearly separated and may be seen as just a manifestation of an aspect of the underlying anxiety issue. A feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" may also be seen as a manifestation of an aspect of an underlying self-disorder (disordered cognition of self and other). So it's always about the whole package, the mental disorder to be diagnosed and all manifestations of all the different aspects that may come along with it. There is a smooth transition between needing psychotherapy and needing psychiatric treatment which has to do with aggravation of tolerable symptoms.
The lack of 'open-mindedness' you are referring to can also be seen as a moderate, culturally supported mental disorder which is highly tolerated exactly because it is common within a collective.

Culturally supported or religiously accepted norms are not considered as mental illnesses in psychiatry though they are clearly seen like such anomalies. So this lack of open mindedness will never be seen as an illness, so there won't be a cure as well.

It's not generally seen as disorders at present but may be generally seen as such in the future which may open the pathway to cure such deficiencies.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 9:53 am I agree with your other opinion on stigmatization; feeling it as a part of the disordered cognition. In that case treating the illness will treat this feeling as well. But unfortunately it will be the main reason that will keep such patients from going for treatment, and this vicious cycle will go on.

Yes, there is a dependency on the individual's cognitive abilities.

stevie wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 6:22 pm

Sushan wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 9:53 am

stevie wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 2:00 am

Sushan wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 1:13 am

It is good if people are open minded enough to see psychiatric illnesses as any other illness. But from where I come people have not evolved to that level so far. Psychiatric patients as well as their families are cornered in the society oftentimes. So many of such people and their families tend to hide their conditions simply because of the stigmatization that it comes along with.

If you look at it a feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" can't be clearly separated and may be seen as just a manifestation of an aspect of the underlying anxiety issue. A feeling of "stigmatization" and a fear of "stigmatization" may also be seen as a manifestation of an aspect of an underlying self-disorder (disordered cognition of self and other). So it's always about the whole package, the mental disorder to be diagnosed and all manifestations of all the different aspects that may come along with it. There is a smooth transition between needing psychotherapy and needing psychiatric treatment which has to do with aggravation of tolerable symptoms.
The lack of 'open-mindedness' you are referring to can also be seen as a moderate, culturally supported mental disorder which is highly tolerated exactly because it is common within a collective.

Culturally supported or religiously accepted norms are not considered as mental illnesses in psychiatry though they are clearly seen like such anomalies. So this lack of open mindedness will never be seen as an illness, so there won't be a cure as well.

It's not generally seen as disorders at present but may be generally seen as such in the future which may open the pathway to cure such deficiencies.

Sushan wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 9:53 am I agree with your other opinion on stigmatization; feeling it as a part of the disordered cognition. In that case treating the illness will treat this feeling as well. But unfortunately it will be the main reason that will keep such patients from going for treatment, and this vicious cycle will go on.

Yes, there is a dependency on the individual's cognitive abilities.

One of my Psychiatry teachers used to say "Religions are the biggest delusions, and luckily religious beliefs are excluded from delusions by definition". If such general things are going to be considered as disorders there will definitely be chaos when deciding what to be included and what not to be included. On the other hand treating a psychiatric illness at the community level will be a huge challenge in comparison to the difficulties that the clinicians face when treating individual patients.