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"Braiding Sweetgrass" is a book by Environmental Biology Professor Robin Kimmerer. Kimmerer is an enrolled member of the Potowatami Nation, a Native American band that traditionally lived on the shores of Lake Michigan in Wisconsin. They were then "removed" -- first to Kansas, then to Oklahoma.

Kimmerer begins her book by recounting an origin story, common to many Native groups in the Great Lakes region.

Skywoman fell like a maple seed, twirling in the breeze. In her hand she clutched a bundle of plants. A flock of geese saw her falling, and rose from the watery world, honking their song. They caught Skywoman, and bore her gently to the water. Around them gathered loons, and otters and beavers and ducks. A giant turtle swam up, and they lowered Skytwoman to its back. But there was no land on which she could make her home, only water. So the deep divers offered to dive to the bottom of the giant lake, and bring back some land. Otter tried and failed. Beaver tried and failed. The water was too deep. Finally, little muskrat swam to the bottom, and returned with a handful of mud. But he died as he gave the mud to Skywoman.

Skywoman spread the mud over the back of the turtle. Then she took the bundle she still carried in her hand, and carefully planted all the seeds in the mud. Wild grass, flowers, and trees grew, and now Skywoman and her animal friends had enough to eat on their home on Turtle Island.

This is the short version of the story. Kimmerer contrasts this story with that of Adam and Eve -- tempted by the snake, expelled from the Garden for eating its fruit, and "made in God's image". IN the Potowatami story, the animals, and even the plants are not only equals with humans, but sometimes their teachers -- for they have had time to figure things out, and to live in harmony with the world.


According to Kimmerer (I've read only the first two chapters) the plants Skywoman brought with her can tell us their story, and our story. We have to learn to listen. The next chapter is about pecan trees, which were an important form os sustenance for the "removed" Potowatami. Pecans store energy (fat) in their roots, And when they have stored enough, they flower, giving forth a bounty of nuts. The cycle of the pecans affects the cycle of the other creatures in the system: the squirrel population skyrockets in years where there is a bounty of nuts; the hawk, fox, and coyote on increases as a result. Then there is bust. The pecans disappear for a couple of years. The squirrels haven't enough food, and there are a surplus of predators.

In addition, the pecan trees appear to communicate with each other. Theories about the method include giving off pheromones, and possibly through interconnected 'mycorrhizae, fungal strands that inhabit tree roots. The trees sometimes appear to act in concert, for the good of the group (I guess trees have more communal facility than Morton thinks humans have). Sometimes there are environmental triggers (warm Spring, lots of rain), but sometimes there are not. Kimmerer's point: the Potowatami say trees "talk" to one another, and now modern science appears to suggest they may. Traditional Western science (she thinks) is prejudiced in favor of thinking aobut "communication" only in animal terms. If pollen wafting on the wind can facillitate pland reproduction, isn't it possible that forms of communication can have similar bases?

I've just started the book -- but the heirarchical and antagonistic view of the Christian and Jewish origin story may have informed the way we see nature -- and Skywoman may inform the way the Potowatami see it. Also, I found the prejudices of Western Science bit interesting. Any thoughts?

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm "Braiding Sweetgrass" is a book by Environmental Biology Professor Robin Kimmerer. Kimmerer is an enrolled member of the Potowatami Nation, a Native American band that traditionally lived on the shores of Lake Michigan in Wisconsin. They were then "removed" -- first to Kansas, then to Oklahoma.

Kimmerer begins her book by recounting an origin story, common to many Native groups in the Great Lakes region.

Skywoman fell like a maple seed, twirling in the breeze. In her hand she clutched a bundle of plants. A flock of geese saw her falling, and rose from the watery world, honking their song. They caught Skywoman, and bore her gently to the water. Around them gathered loons, and otters and beavers and ducks. A giant turtle swam up, and they lowered Skytwoman to its back. But there was no land on which she could make her home, only water. So the deep divers offered to dive to the bottom of the giant lake, and bring back some land. Otter tried and failed. Beaver tried and failed. The water was too deep. Finally, little muskrat swam to the bottom, and returned with a handful of mud. But he died as he gave the mud to Skywoman.

Skywoman spread the mud over the back of the turtle. Then she took the bundle she still carried in her hand, and carefully planted all the seeds in the mud. Wild grass, flowers, and trees grew, and now Skywoman and her animal friends had enough to eat on their home on Turtle Island.

This is the short version of the story. Kimmerer contrasts this story with that of Adam and Eve -- tempted by the snake, expelled from the Garden for eating its fruit, and "made in God's image". IN the Potowatami story, the animals, and even the plants are not only equals with humans, but sometimes their teachers -- for they have had time to figure things out, and to live in harmony with the world.


According to Kimmerer (I've read only the first two chapters) the plants Skywoman brought with her can tell us their story, and our story. We have to learn to listen. The next chapter is about pecan trees, which were an important form os sustenance for the "removed" Potowatami. Pecans store energy (fat) in their roots, And when they have stored enough, they flower, giving forth a bounty of nuts. The cycle of the pecans affects the cycle of the other creatures in the system: the squirrel population skyrockets in years where there is a bounty of nuts; the hawk, fox, and coyote on increases as a result. Then there is bust. The pecans disappear for a couple of years. The squirrels haven't enough food, and there are a surplus of predators.

In addition, the pecan trees appear to communicate with each other. Theories about the method include giving off pheromones, and possibly through interconnected 'mycorrhizae, fungal strands that inhabit tree roots. The trees sometimes appear to act in concert, for the good of the group (I guess trees have more communal facility than Morton thinks humans have). Sometimes there are environmental triggers (warm Spring, lots of rain), but sometimes there are not. Kimmerer's point: the Potowatami say trees "talk" to one another, and now modern science appears to suggest they may. Traditional Western science (she thinks) is prejudiced in favor of thinking aobut "communication" only in animal terms. If pollen wafting on the wind can facillitate pland reproduction, isn't it possible that forms of communication can have similar bases?

I've just started the book -- but the heirarchical and antagonistic view of the Christian and Jewish origin story may have informed the way we see nature -- and Skywoman may inform the way the Potowatami see it. Also, I found the prejudices of Western Science bit interesting. Any thoughts?

Pantheism is not hierarchical and the Potowatami creation myth is pantheistic.The protagonist is also a woman who, unlike bossy male God, accepts the cooperation of the other creatures as a power network, not as in a power hierarchy as happens with God at the top, then Adam, then the Eve and snake combo.

In the Potowatami myth Eve plus snake are equivalent to Skywoman plus animals. In the Potowahami myth the creator principle is feminine, whereas in Abrahamic myth the creator principle is masculine.

In the Potowanami origin story, Skywoman falls from "skyworld" through a hole in the sky. IN the Hopi origin myth the "people" emerge from a hole in the ground. Of course emerging from a hole mirrors human birth, but in both stories the people are clearly seen as "immigrants" -- just as Europeans were immigrants in later centuries. Also, I'm curious about the distinction between coming from the "underworld" and "overworld". Does it imply something about humans or human psychology?

I wonder if agriculture and animal husbandry influenced religion -- and created a notion of humans as the "masters" of their environments, while hunters/gatherers saw themselves as (like other hunting and gathering species) a part of their environment. Of course some Native American groups practiced agriculture and animal husbandry -- but I don't know if their myths reflect a different view of the human condition.

The notion that pecan trees bloom together suggests some sort of strange communication; although it used to be thought that it was the result of the weather, recent research suggests this may not be the case. There does appear to be an evolutionay advantage to this: when there is a surplus of nuts, not all of them are eaten. Many are carried away by squirrels and eaten later. The surplus may lead to seeds being more widely dispersed (in both time and space). But how the pecan trees are able to ct in concert remains a mystery.

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm "Braiding Sweetgrass" is a book by Environmental Biology Professor Robin Kimmerer. Kimmerer is an enrolled member of the Potowatami Nation, a Native American band that traditionally lived on the shores of Lake Michigan in Wisconsin. They were then "removed" -- first to Kansas, then to Oklahoma.

Kimmerer begins her book by recounting an origin story, common to many Native groups in the Great Lakes region.

Skywoman fell like a maple seed, twirling in the breeze. In her hand she clutched a bundle of plants. A flock of geese saw her falling, and rose from the watery world, honking their song. They caught Skywoman, and bore her gently to the water. Around them gathered loons, and otters and beavers and ducks. A giant turtle swam up, and they lowered Skytwoman to its back. But there was no land on which she could make her home, only water. So the deep divers offered to dive to the bottom of the giant lake, and bring back some land. Otter tried and failed. Beaver tried and failed. The water was too deep. Finally, little muskrat swam to the bottom, and returned with a handful of mud. But he died as he gave the mud to Skywoman.

Skywoman spread the mud over the back of the turtle. Then she took the bundle she still carried in her hand, and carefully planted all the seeds in the mud. Wild grass, flowers, and trees grew, and now Skywoman and her animal friends had enough to eat on their home on Turtle Island.

This is the short version of the story. Kimmerer contrasts this story with that of Adam and Eve -- tempted by the snake, expelled from the Garden for eating its fruit, and "made in God's image". IN the Potowatami story, the animals, and even the plants are not only equals with humans, but sometimes their teachers -- for they have had time to figure things out, and to live in harmony with the world.

I really enjoyed this story, as it contrasts the very different philosophies of Native Americans in general when compared with the European mindset.

Religion is a study of consciousness and emotion, so the stories about how we originated as a species tells a lot about what we think of ourselves and how we think, as there is a great deal of 'projecting' in these stories -- which Professor Kimmerer seems to have recognized. In the Biblical story, the Garden of Eden is simply a backdrop for Adam and Eve. Yes, it is a wonderful place, but like a good servant, it simply exists to provide for our needs; we did not even evolve from other life in the story, because we came from mud/clay and the breath of "God". The only other life forms that have any relevance in that story are the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. (The snake is about a different story and is not really a snake.)

The Tree of Knowledge reference lets us know that this story is about the rational aspect of mind. It was when Adam and Eve chose the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they got in trouble. It is explained that they disobeyed "God", but in reality, they did something that no other species could do, and that was to choose knowledge, which requires a rational mind and displays intent. Because we had intent, we had the ability to sin, which would be why religions state that Original Sin started in the Garden of Eden, or you could say it started with the ability to choose. A volcano or earthquake can kill thousands, but it does not do it with intent, so it is not a sin, not murder.

In the Potowatami story, Skywoman is not concerned about being right or wrong, good or bad, she is concerned about her responsibility to other life and about sharing that responsibility. The Natives no doubt also understood that we had the ability to choose, and therefore the ability to mess things up, but instead of focusing on 'sin', they focused on working with nature and other life. A totally different mindset. Holistic thinkers compare things to help understand each of those things; linear thinkers compare things to decide which is better or more right.

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm According to Kimmerer (I've read only the first two chapters) the plants Skywoman brought with her can tell us their story, and our story. We have to learn to listen. The next chapter is about pecan trees, which were an important form os sustenance for the "removed" Potowatami. Pecans store energy (fat) in their roots, And when they have stored enough, they flower, giving forth a bounty of nuts. The cycle of the pecans affects the cycle of the other creatures in the system: the squirrel population skyrockets in years where there is a bounty of nuts; the hawk, fox, and coyote on increases as a result. Then there is bust. The pecans disappear for a couple of years. The squirrels haven't enough food, and there are a surplus of predators.

In addition, the pecan trees appear to communicate with each other. Theories about the method include giving off pheromones, and possibly through interconnected 'mycorrhizae, fungal strands that inhabit tree roots. The trees sometimes appear to act in concert, for the good of the group (I guess trees have more communal facility than Morton thinks humans have). Sometimes there are environmental triggers (warm Spring, lots of rain), but sometimes there are not. Kimmerer's point: the Potowatami say trees "talk" to one another, and now modern science appears to suggest they may. Traditional Western science (she thinks) is prejudiced in favor of thinking aobut "communication" only in animal terms. If pollen wafting on the wind can facillitate pland reproduction, isn't it possible that forms of communication can have similar bases?

I agree with Kimmerer. Traditional Western science thinks that consciousness is produced by a brain, probably a human brain, and it exists in the form of thoughts. Obviously, trees do not have this ability. On the other hand, ecosystems are self-balancing and have been since the beginning, which is something that the Natives seem to have noticed. So, either Nature has been extremely lucky in promoting itself for hundreds of thousands of years, or there is some communication going on within Nature that the Natives noticed and science will eventually discover.

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm I've just started the book -- but the heirarchical and antagonistic view of the Christian and Jewish origin story may have informed the way we see nature -- and Skywoman may inform the way the Potowatami see it. Also, I found the prejudices of Western Science bit interesting. Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that the two different approaches are due to different types of thinking. The Christian/Jewish origin story reflects a linear type of thinking, but the Potowatami origin story reflects holistic thinking.

Linear thinkers firmly believe in progress because they believe that there is a better way and it can be found and implemented. This causes them to also firmly believe in right and wrong, which can be problematic, as linear thinkers do not like to be wrong. (My husband was a linear thinker. Chuckle) Bearing this idea in mind, consider what happened when the Europeans washed up on America's shores -- they met the natives, who were a little different. Because they were different, that means that someone is right and someone is wrong, and the Europeans did not intend to be wrong. That made the natives wrong by virtue of their existence.

That attitude followed the relationships between the two peoples and is still relevant today. It is also clearly reflected in the religious beliefs.

Gee

Gee wrote: ↑November 12th, 2021, 12:00 am

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm "Braiding Sweetgrass" is a book by Environmental Biology Professor Robin Kimmerer. Kimmerer is an enrolled member of the Potowatami Nation, a Native American band that traditionally lived on the shores of Lake Michigan in Wisconsin. They were then "removed" -- first to Kansas, then to Oklahoma.

Kimmerer begins her book by recounting an origin story, common to many Native groups in the Great Lakes region.

Skywoman fell like a maple seed, twirling in the breeze. In her hand she clutched a bundle of plants. A flock of geese saw her falling, and rose from the watery world, honking their song. They caught Skywoman, and bore her gently to the water. Around them gathered loons, and otters and beavers and ducks. A giant turtle swam up, and they lowered Skytwoman to its back. But there was no land on which she could make her home, only water. So the deep divers offered to dive to the bottom of the giant lake, and bring back some land. Otter tried and failed. Beaver tried and failed. The water was too deep. Finally, little muskrat swam to the bottom, and returned with a handful of mud. But he died as he gave the mud to Skywoman.

Skywoman spread the mud over the back of the turtle. Then she took the bundle she still carried in her hand, and carefully planted all the seeds in the mud. Wild grass, flowers, and trees grew, and now Skywoman and her animal friends had enough to eat on their home on Turtle Island.

This is the short version of the story. Kimmerer contrasts this story with that of Adam and Eve -- tempted by the snake, expelled from the Garden for eating its fruit, and "made in God's image". IN the Potowatami story, the animals, and even the plants are not only equals with humans, but sometimes their teachers -- for they have had time to figure things out, and to live in harmony with the world.

I really enjoyed this story, as it contrasts the very different philosophies of Native Americans in general when compared with the European mindset.

Religion is a study of consciousness and emotion, so the stories about how we originated as a species tells a lot about what we think of ourselves and how we think, as there is a great deal of 'projecting' in these stories -- which Professor Kimmerer seems to have recognized. In the Biblical story, the Garden of Eden is simply a backdrop for Adam and Eve. Yes, it is a wonderful place, but like a good servant, it simply exists to provide for our needs; we did not even evolve from other life in the story, because we came from mud/clay and the breath of "God". The only other life forms that have any relevance in that story are the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. (The snake is about a different story and is not really a snake.)

The Tree of Knowledge reference lets us know that this story is about the rational aspect of mind. It was when Adam and Eve chose the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they got in trouble. It is explained that they disobeyed "God", but in reality, they did something that no other species could do, and that was to choose knowledge, which requires a rational mind and displays intent. Because we had intent, we had the ability to sin, which would be why religions state that Original Sin started in the Garden of Eden, or you could say it started with the ability to choose. A volcano or earthquake can kill thousands, but it does not do it with intent, so it is not a sin, not murder.

In the Potowatami story, Skywoman is not concerned about being right or wrong, good or bad, she is concerned about her responsibility to other life and about sharing that responsibility. The Natives no doubt also understood that we had the ability to choose, and therefore the ability to mess things up, but instead of focusing on 'sin', they focused on working with nature and other life. A totally different mindset. Holistic thinkers compare things to help understand each of those things; linear thinkers compare things to decide which is better or more right.

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm According to Kimmerer (I've read only the first two chapters) the plants Skywoman brought with her can tell us their story, and our story. We have to learn to listen. The next chapter is about pecan trees, which were an important form os sustenance for the "removed" Potowatami. Pecans store energy (fat) in their roots, And when they have stored enough, they flower, giving forth a bounty of nuts. The cycle of the pecans affects the cycle of the other creatures in the system: the squirrel population skyrockets in years where there is a bounty of nuts; the hawk, fox, and coyote on increases as a result. Then there is bust. The pecans disappear for a couple of years. The squirrels haven't enough food, and there are a surplus of predators.

In addition, the pecan trees appear to communicate with each other. Theories about the method include giving off pheromones, and possibly through interconnected 'mycorrhizae, fungal strands that inhabit tree roots. The trees sometimes appear to act in concert, for the good of the group (I guess trees have more communal facility than Morton thinks humans have). Sometimes there are environmental triggers (warm Spring, lots of rain), but sometimes there are not. Kimmerer's point: the Potowatami say trees "talk" to one another, and now modern science appears to suggest they may. Traditional Western science (she thinks) is prejudiced in favor of thinking aobut "communication" only in animal terms. If pollen wafting on the wind can facillitate pland reproduction, isn't it possible that forms of communication can have similar bases?

I agree with Kimmerer. Traditional Western science thinks that consciousness is produced by a brain, probably a human brain, and it exists in the form of thoughts. Obviously, trees do not have this ability. On the other hand, ecosystems are self-balancing and have been since the beginning, which is something that the Natives seem to have noticed. So, either Nature has been extremely lucky in promoting itself for hundreds of thousands of years, or there is some communication going on within Nature that the Natives noticed and science will eventually discover.

Ecurb wrote: ↑November 10th, 2021, 7:41 pm I've just started the book -- but the heirarchical and antagonistic view of the Christian and Jewish origin story may have informed the way we see nature -- and Skywoman may inform the way the Potowatami see it. Also, I found the prejudices of Western Science bit interesting. Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that the two different approaches are due to different types of thinking. The Christian/Jewish origin story reflects a linear type of thinking, but the Potowatami origin story reflects holistic thinking.

Linear thinkers firmly believe in progress because they believe that there is a better way and it can be found and implemented. This causes them to also firmly believe in right and wrong, which can be problematic, as linear thinkers do not like to be wrong. (My husband was a linear thinker. Chuckle) Bearing this idea in mind, consider what happened when the Europeans washed up on America's shores -- they met the natives, who were a little different. Because they were different, that means that someone is right and someone is wrong, and the Europeans did not intend to be wrong. That made the natives wrong by virtue of their existence.

That attitude followed the relationships between the two peoples and is still relevant today. It is also clearly reflected in the religious beliefs.

Gee

From Gee, a thoroughly appropriate comparison of the two cultures and what is the deep difference between them. I agree the difference is relevant today .(To put it mildly!)

Religions obviously emerge from cultures of belief and practice, which in their turn emerge from means of subsistence. Is there any hope that modernisers will be able to make Christianity more 'feminine', and in accordance with nature's imperative, in the age of man-made climate change?

The next chapter is entitled "The Gift of Strawberries". When Kimmerer was a girl, she and her brother would find and eat wild strawberries. Each year, on her father's birthday. her mother would bake a short cake, and the children were tasked with bringing home the wild strwaberries. No tame or store bought strawberries would do. That's because wild strawberries, like the short cake, are a GIFT.

Wally (The Bear) Meshigaud is a Potowatami elder, who burns sweetgrass in ceremonies. He refuses to buy the sweetgrass. Ceremonial sweetgrass must be gift -- that he either picks himself or is given to him. Occasionally, at big gatherings, he runs out. Then he asks the young people selling sweetgrass to give him some. Some of them think the old man is a grifter, trying to get something for nothing. But he claims the sweetgrass will only be effective in ceremonies if it is freely given.

Economies in which gift-giving is a principle means of exchange and the movement of goods see the world differently from capitalists, perhaps. The value of the gift is two-fold. It has material value, and social value. The term "Indian giver" refers to someone who gives a gift, and then wants it back again. It is true that the indigenous Americans view "property" differently from us capitalists. The GIFT increases in value each time it is given, because the giving is as valuable as the object. The sweater our grandmothers knitted for us may not be worth much on the open market -- but it has value to us: the value of love that cannot be measured in dollars and cents.

Skywoman's beautiful daughter -- already in Skywoman's womb when she fell from the sky -- died giving birth to twins. She was buried in the earth, and the most revered Potowatami plants grew from her body. Strawberries grew from her heart. They are more delicious when they are given, not sold.