Philosophy Discussion Forums

Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.
Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

That story in no way is literal I mean not one iota of it
So why you swashbuckle / innocence? Doesn't that seem like a waste of time?

MAYA EL wrote: ↑July 31st, 2021, 1:11 pm That story in no way is literal I mean not one iota of it
So why you swashbuckle / innocence? Doesn't that seem like a waste of time?

Ask the gays and women who continue to be victimized by those whose attitudes have been corrupted to homophobia and misogyny that arises out or Genesis and Christianity.

If you do not think the innocence of Eve, as representative of all women, should be highlighted so as to reduce those harms, then yes, I would be wasting my time.

True that it is just a myth. One that should be hated by all moral people.

Not because it was written. Because of Christianity reversing the original moral of the story.

If you understand the myth, it is revelation that will make you moral.

If you use it like Christians do, you are immoral.

I am not sure what you mean by -- So why you swashbuckle / innocence? -- although I know the meaning of both words.

Regards
DL

The biblical narration of Adam and Eve is not the cause of the cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society. The cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society in biblical times is the cause of the narration of Adam and Eve. The cultural notions themselves are the result of how those societies were organized to produce and reproduce their material life.

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 1st, 2021, 10:56 pm The biblical narration of Adam and Eve is not the cause of the cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society. The cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society in biblical times is the cause of the narration of Adam and Eve. The cultural notions themselves are the result of how those societies were organized to produce and reproduce their material life.

I disagree.

It is not relevant to my question and too big of a deflection.

I will mention the 20,000 years of relative peace, before the Bronze Age, under goddesses, and the following 5,000 years of war under the male gods.

Women seem to rule better than men, if peace is wanted.

This aside.

The injustice for Eve is the issue.

Judaism was well into equality. Christianity was a step into inequality for women.

That is why the inquisitors especially liked to torture women. Sex was their bonus.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 1st, 2021, 10:56 pm The biblical narration of Adam and Eve is not the cause of the cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society. The cultural notions regarding the relation between men and women and their role in society in biblical times is the cause of the narration of Adam and Eve. The cultural notions themselves are the result of how those societies were organized to produce and reproduce their material life.

I disagree.

It is not relevant to my question and too big of a deflection.

It goes straight to your implied argument. It is quite relevant to the question since it shows that it is not the biblical narration that caused some cultural patterns, but those cultural patterns were already there when the biblical narration was composed.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am I will mention the 20,000 years of relative peace, before the Bronze Age, under goddesses, and the following 5,000 years of war under the male gods.

That doesn't seem to be historically accurate. What do you mean "20,000 years of relative peace" and what makes you think every deity before the Bronze Age was a goddess?

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am Women seem to rule better than men, if peace is wanted.

I wouldn't mind agreeing with that, but it is a sweeping generalization.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am Judaism was well into equality. Christianity was a step into inequality for women.

Judaism well into equality? You're out of your mind. Did you ever read the Torah?

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 10:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am Judaism was well into equality. Christianity was a step into inequality for women.

Judaism well into equality? You're out of your mind. Did you ever read the Torah?

Much of it, yes. I agree with Hillel.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

Pls google Bigthink. com/videos what-is-god-2-2

Further.
Pls google /moyers/journal/03132009

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke

On women.
The Role of Women in the Synagogue - Judaism 101

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 16th, 2021, 7:56 pm

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 10:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am Judaism was well into equality. Christianity was a step into inequality for women.

Judaism well into equality? You're out of your mind. Did you ever read the Torah?

Much of it, yes. I agree with Hillel.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

Pls google Bigthink. com/videos what-is-god-2-2

Further.
Pls google /moyers/journal/03132009

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke

On women.
The Role of Women in the Synagogue - Judaism 101

Regards
DL

So, your argument is that the Torah is not to be taken literally, so it is not useful to determine what stance took Judaism on the equality of women. Nice, so I guess you're going to tell us now what is the REAL source of evidence to the claim that Judaism took a stance for the equality of women. I'm all ears.

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 17th, 2021, 9:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 16th, 2021, 7:56 pm

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 10:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2021, 11:05 am Judaism was well into equality. Christianity was a step into inequality for women.

Judaism well into equality? You're out of your mind. Did you ever read the Torah?

Much of it, yes. I agree with Hillel.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

Pls google Bigthink. com/videos what-is-god-2-2

Further.
Pls google /moyers/journal/03132009

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke

On women.
The Role of Women in the Synagogue - Judaism 101

Regards
DL

So, your argument is that the Torah is not to be taken literally, so it is not useful to determine what stance took Judaism on the equality of women. Nice, so I guess you're going to tell us now what is the REAL source of evidence to the claim that Judaism took a stance for the equality of women. I'm all ears.

Yes to your first, as that would have intelligent people stupidly believing in the supernatural.

No to the rest.

Midrash is always useful. Christians should have recognized that before stupidly starting to believe that talking serpents and donkeys were real.

Judaism myth is thought to have come from older Sumerian and Egyptian sources. At that time, you might remember that they had female Pharaohs.

That is as close as you can get to equality of the sexes.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑August 18th, 2021, 4:14 pm

Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 17th, 2021, 9:33 pm So, your argument is that the Torah is not to be taken literally, so it is not useful to determine what stance took Judaism on the equality of women. Nice, so I guess you're going to tell us now what is the REAL source of evidence to the claim that Judaism took a stance for the equality of women. I'm all ears.

Yes to your first, as that would have intelligent people stupidly believing in the supernatural.

No to the rest.

Midrash is always useful. Christians should have recognized that before stupidly starting to believe that talking serpents and donkeys were real.

Judaism myth is thought to have come from older Sumerian and Egyptian sources. At that time, you might remember that they had female Pharaohs.

That is as close as you can get to equality of the sexes.

Regards
DL

Ah, just as I suspected.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑July 30th, 2021, 7:42 pm Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.
Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

According to Genesis 3 Adam and Eve both sinned (though the word sin is not used).

The consensus of modern scholars is that the Eden narrative is a myth intended to say something about humanity in general, not intended to be a historical record.

LuckyR wrote: ↑August 19th, 2021, 2:02 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑July 30th, 2021, 7:42 pm Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.
Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

According to Genesis 3 Adam and Eve both sinned (though the word sin is not used).

The consensus of modern scholars is that the Eden narrative is a myth intended to say something about humanity in general, not intended to be a historical record.

I agree.

What is it's message?

The Christian fall and Original Sin, or the Jewish elevation and Original Virtue?

Christianity reverse the moral of the story.

Which religion got it right?

Is man gaining knowledge good or evil to you?

Regards
DL

I swear there must be people that are signed up to the same three or four different forums that I am because I see the same question asked on multiple forums

Let's face it! Humans haven't made the gods very friendly. Maybe that's because there's too much of the human in the gods they created.

Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 5:45 pm Let's face it! Humans haven't made the gods very friendly. Maybe that's because there's too much of the human in the gods they created.

Not friendly, I can live with, but given the harm the homophobic and misogynous ways religions gift us with, and the harm religions bring to us with them, to ignore them would be immoral.

For the evils of religions to grow, all good people etc.

Is it moral to hate those who hate?

Yes.

Regards
DL