Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sushan]

This topic is related to the philosophical book for the month of June Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power by Barbara Galutia Regis PA-C

https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/shelv ... ?id=419391

...my topic was the importance of having access to some form of health insurance – whether you’re in the United States or elsewhere. Part of this book delves into insurance, and I am experiencing firsthand the importance of having catastrophic health insurance. I’m also a huge proponent of Health Savings Account (HSA) plans.

(Location 145 in Kindle version of the book)

Do you feel the same as the author about health insurance? Have you had benefits because you had an insurance or had difficulties because you did not have an insurance? Has the author been honest or is she trying to market the insurance companies (she has dedicated three chapters of her book to talk about health insurance.)?

[Terrapin Station]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

[Sushan]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

Having a good health should be a fundamental right of each and every person. And it is better if it can be free because not everyone is capable to afford such a luxury. But the problem occurs when the country you are living in is a poor one, which cannot provide free health services to all its citizens. But having said that it is sad to see how rich countries like USA depending on Health Insurance to provide healthcare for its people while spending millions on wars in other countries.

[Thomyum2]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

Having a good health should be a fundamental right of each and every person. And it is better if it can be free because not everyone is capable to afford such a luxury. But the problem occurs when the country you are living in is a poor one, which cannot provide free health services to all its citizens. But having said that it is sad to see how rich countries like USA depending on Health Insurance to provide healthcare for its people while spending millions on wars in other countries.

Healthcare can't be free unless you're asking the people who provide it to work as unpaid labor. Since you have to educate and compensate the doctors, nurses, staff, suppliers, and everyone else who works to provide these services, someone has to pay for it, so it's misguided to think that healthcare could ever be 'free'.

Insurance just functions as a way to manage risk and make healthcare affordable to everyone who participates. For example, the average hospitalization cost in the US of a premature baby is estimated to be around $150,000. Very few people can afford this, but by pooling funds with others (through taxes or premiums) you can collect a sufficient amount such that no individual has to bear this cost alone. Pooling these funds can be done publicly (through government programs) or privately (by insurance companies) and though some individuals might be allowed to participate without paying into the pool, that certainly doesn't make the services free. The system survives based on the fact that the majority will purchase something for which they will likely not get their full money back in return.

Of course one of the problems that follows from this system is that when individuals aren't bearing the full costs themselves, there is no incentive to limit consumption of those services. So governments and insurance providers must find ways to ration the services to what is affordable, reasonable and necessary - a very difficult and controversial task that creates many problems of its own.

[Sushan]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

Having a good health should be a fundamental right of each and every person. And it is better if it can be free because not everyone is capable to afford such a luxury. But the problem occurs when the country you are living in is a poor one, which cannot provide free health services to all its citizens. But having said that it is sad to see how rich countries like USA depending on Health Insurance to provide healthcare for its people while spending millions on wars in other countries.

Healthcare can't be free unless you're asking the people who provide it to work as unpaid labor. Since you have to educate and compensate the doctors, nurses, staff, suppliers, and everyone else who works to provide these services, someone has to pay for it, so it's misguided to think that healthcare could ever be 'free'.

Insurance just functions as a way to manage risk and make healthcare affordable to everyone who participates. For example, the average hospitalization cost in the US of a premature baby is estimated to be around $150,000. Very few people can afford this, but by pooling funds with others (through taxes or premiums) you can collect a sufficient amount such that no individual has to bear this cost alone. Pooling these funds can be done publicly (through government programs) or privately (by insurance companies) and though some individuals might be allowed to participate without paying into the pool, that certainly doesn't make the services free. The system survives based on the fact that the majority will purchase something for which they will likely not get their full money back in return.

Of course one of the problems that follows from this system is that when individuals aren't bearing the full costs themselves, there is no incentive to limit consumption of those services. So governments and insurance providers must find ways to ration the services to what is affordable, reasonable and necessary - a very difficult and controversial task that creates many problems of its own.

I agree that nothing can ever be free. Everything has a cost and by one way or the other those costs have to be compensated. What you say about pooling funds is true. If something is given for free, that means its cost is compensated from something else.

But what I believe is a fundamental right like health should be available for each and everyone to approach without paying. There is the down side of wasting the freely given services. But health should remain as a free service and its cost can be compensated from other taxes. For an example, a tax can be added for luxury vehicles and that money can be transferred to settle medical bills. That will harm no one as the luxury car buyers cannot be poor people.

[Thomyum2]

I agree that nothing can ever be free. Everything has a cost and by one way or the other those costs have to be compensated. What you say about pooling funds is true. If something is given for free, that means its cost is compensated from something else.

But what I believe is a fundamental right like health should be available for each and everyone to approach without paying. There is the down side of wasting the freely given services. But health should remain as a free service and its cost can be compensated from other taxes. For an example, a tax can be added for luxury vehicles and that money can be transferred to settle medical bills. That will harm no one as the luxury car buyers cannot be poor people.

That's a hard sell to many of the people who have worked hard and saved their money to buy that luxury car, of course.

But on the whole I agree with you, and I do think there are more equitable and efficient ways of doing things. Investing in basic health, if done correctly, can end up save everyone money in the long run and it doesn't have to involve running up the costs endlessly. Better to pay for that mother's $200 doctor visits before she delivers and then perhaps avoid a problem that might result in the $150,000 hospitalization for a premature baby, for example. Unfortunately, our political climate these days doesn't leave a lot of room for rational discussions about these things.

[Sushan]

I agree that nothing can ever be free. Everything has a cost and by one way or the other those costs have to be compensated. What you say about pooling funds is true. If something is given for free, that means its cost is compensated from something else.

But what I believe is a fundamental right like health should be available for each and everyone to approach without paying. There is the down side of wasting the freely given services. But health should remain as a free service and its cost can be compensated from other taxes. For an example, a tax can be added for luxury vehicles and that money can be transferred to settle medical bills. That will harm no one as the luxury car buyers cannot be poor people.

That's a hard sell to many of the people who have worked hard and saved their money to buy that luxury car, of course.

But on the whole I agree with you, and I do think there are more equitable and efficient ways of doing things. Investing in basic health, if done correctly, can end up save everyone money in the long run and it doesn't have to involve running up the costs endlessly. Better to pay for that mother's $200 doctor visits before she delivers and then perhaps avoid a problem that might result in the $150,000 hospitalization for a premature baby, for example. Unfortunately, our political climate these days doesn't leave a lot of room for rational discussions about these things.

Prevention is better than cure. If the small things are treated early, there won't be severe later consequences. That is why the healthcare at primary level should be improved. A lot of improvement has to be done at the level of family and community physicians, public health midwives and public health inspectors. So the basic health of people at community level will be high and that will drastically reduce the need of sophisticated and expensive treatment options.

Yes, it will be a hard blow to those who earned to buy that luxury car. But what we commonly see is those who buy such luxury things have enough money to spare. So applying 'Robin Hood' theory won't harm them much

[LuckyR]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

Healthcare should be like bus service. Available to all for a nominal fee, subsidized by the government through taxes and provide basic services, in other words, not a Ferrari. Ferraris should be available to those who want to spend their own money for one. Most will want a Toyota, but everyone can ride the bus.

Right now, the rich drive Ferraris at a Ferrari price, the poor get a Toyota for the price of bus fare and the middle class has had to trade their Toyota in for a motorcycle, but still at the price of their previous Toyota.

[Sushan]

In my view, health care needs to be treated as a fundamental right. It shouldn't require having to select some plan or other. It shouldn't require any effort on your part aside from showing up or requesting an ambulance if you need one. You need health care, you get health care, for free. Whatever health care you need. It's absolutely ridiculous that some people can't get the health care they'd need because they can't afford it.

Healthcare should be like bus service. Available to all for a nominal fee, subsidized by the government through taxes and provide basic services, in other words, not a Ferrari. Ferraris should be available to those who want to spend their own money for one. Most will want a Toyota, but everyone can ride the bus.

Right now, the rich drive Ferraris at a Ferrari price, the poor get a Toyota for the price of bus fare and the middle class has had to trade their Toyota in for a motorcycle, but still at the price of their previous Toyota.

There are many discrepancies in healthcare business as there is no central control unit or a central regulating unit for it. But at country level there are various systems. Several countries provide totally free health services, and for those who want there is private sector to spend some money and get a better and quick service, as the free service has to cater a lot of consumers with their limited resources the service is slow and lacking in several areas.

Some countries run on insurance based system, in which the poor ones are in real trouble. There are few free of charge facilities, but they are neglected and has almost nothing.

Healthcare has become a gable in many places, money vs lives. It can be changed, but not so easy as there are many who are used to live with the profit that they get from that gamble, and they are the ones who are in the chairs who can actually regulate or control the system.

[AverageBozo]

Healthcare should be like bus service. Available to all for a nominal fee, subsidized by the government through taxes and provide basic services, in other words, not a Ferrari. Ferraris should be available to those who want to spend their own money for one. Most will want a Toyota, but everyone can ride the bus.

Right now, the rich drive Ferraris at a Ferrari price, the poor get a Toyota for the price of bus fare and the middle class has had to trade their Toyota in for a motorcycle, but still at the price of their previous Toyota.

Perhaps not perfect, but the analogy made above by Lucky is apt and illustrative. Going a step further, the government may be considered a bus company officer or the dealership manager for Ferrari, Toyota and all motorcycles.

In the States, anyway, there’s a government program called Medicare. This program fixes the prices for services and equipment, both for government agencies such as the VA, the Indian Health Service, the Public Health Service, the Military, the Merchant Marine, the Coast Guard and all other federal agencies, as well as for the private insurance industry.

Medicare does this by setting the amounts that can be charged and reimbursed by/for government agencies. Insurance companies follow suit because they will not recover more than the government rate.

So, in this sense, the government is in the business of healthcare.

[Sushan]

Healthcare should be like bus service. Available to all for a nominal fee, subsidized by the government through taxes and provide basic services, in other words, not a Ferrari. Ferraris should be available to those who want to spend their own money for one. Most will want a Toyota, but everyone can ride the bus.

Right now, the rich drive Ferraris at a Ferrari price, the poor get a Toyota for the price of bus fare and the middle class has had to trade their Toyota in for a motorcycle, but still at the price of their previous Toyota.

Perhaps not perfect, but the analogy made above by Lucky is apt and illustrative. Going a step further, the government may be considered a bus company officer or the dealership manager for Ferrari, Toyota and all motorcycles.

In the States, anyway, there’s a government program called Medicare. This program fixes the prices for services and equipment, both for government agencies such as the VA, the Indian Health Service, the Public Health Service, the Military, the Merchant Marine, the Coast Guard and all other federal agencies, as well as for the private insurance industry.

Medicare does this by setting the amounts that can be charged and reimbursed by/for government agencies. Insurance companies follow suit because they will not recover more than the government rate.

So, in this sense, the government is in the business of healthcare.

Definitely it is a good thing that the government coming forward as the regulating body. Otherwise how can such a large field of business, which is of utmost importance and necessity can be controlled? If the government just let loose the rains, the private sector and the insurance companies will be in a competitive business which will include all the bad aspects of other profit based businesses. Ultimately the suffering party will be the common population. So, whether it is a business or not, it is good to have a centralized control mechanism and a system.

[LuckyR]

Healthcare should be like bus service. Available to all for a nominal fee, subsidized by the government through taxes and provide basic services, in other words, not a Ferrari. Ferraris should be available to those who want to spend their own money for one. Most will want a Toyota, but everyone can ride the bus.

Right now, the rich drive Ferraris at a Ferrari price, the poor get a Toyota for the price of bus fare and the middle class has had to trade their Toyota in for a motorcycle, but still at the price of their previous Toyota.

Perhaps not perfect, but the analogy made above by Lucky is apt and illustrative. Going a step further, the government may be considered a bus company officer or the dealership manager for Ferrari, Toyota and all motorcycles.

In the States, anyway, there’s a government program called Medicare. This program fixes the prices for services and equipment, both for government agencies such as the VA, the Indian Health Service, the Public Health Service, the Military, the Merchant Marine, the Coast Guard and all other federal agencies, as well as for the private insurance industry.

Medicare does this by setting the amounts that can be charged and reimbursed by/for government agencies. Insurance companies follow suit because they will not recover more than the government rate.

So, in this sense, the government is in the business of healthcare.

Exactly. Medicare is the Toyota. That's why the elderly and the poor (Medicaid) get Toyotas for the price of bus fare. It's the middle class, who make too much for Medicaid who get stuck with crappy private insurance that their employer purchased, who have motorcycles (at Toyota prices).

[bookishgal]

Yes! felt that the author provided ample evidence in her text to authenticate her experience with the healthcare system.

My caveat is that since she is a professional healthcare provider, I imagine her experience was quite different than someone not in the field.

[Sushan]

Yes! felt that the author provided ample evidence in her text to authenticate her experience with the healthcare system.

My caveat is that since she is a professional healthcare provider, I imagine her experience was quite different than someone not in the field.

She is a doctor and she is in the healthcare system, I agree. But she is not working for or in a health insurance company. So I do not think she has no means to know any inside details about healthcare insurances other than what all the insurance consumers either know or believe. Yes, she is talking from first hand experience, but is it the actual nature of these health insurances? Are they that much divine?