Philosophy Discussion Forums

Out of curiosity I looked up beaches, the boundary point between sea and land. Interesting things seem to happen at boundaries, made unstable by the push and pull of the boundaries either side.

Unlike most of my searches, with the "beach" search I was inundated with ads for various "idyllic spots". What is it about beaches that draws humans to this day. It's odd, given that other great apes don't seem to have that same attachment to them.

Greta wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 7:44 pm Out of curiosity I looked up beaches, the boundary point between sea and land. Interesting things seem to happen at boundaries, made unstable by the push and pull of the boundaries either side.

Unlike most of my searches, with the "beach" search I was inundated with ads for various "idyllic spots". What is it about beaches that draws humans to this day. It's odd, given that other great apes don't seem to have that same attachment to them.

It is a great combination of sun for those who live where it rains, sand for lazing about for those who work hard (when they are on vacation), girls in swim suits for essentially everyone, surf for those who enjoy watersports, memories of summer escapes from childhood for many if not most.

It is an interesting one. Maybe, since beaches are dividing lines between land and water, it reflects our love for imposing categories/classes with hard, discrete dividing lines on the continua of Nature. More prosaically, in a crowded world, they're good places for recreation because, thanks to such things as daily tides and shifting sands, it's difficult to build on them.

On a similar subject before, we noted that Australia, in particular, is a boundary-dominated country with relatively highly populated coastal areas and a relatively sparsely populated hot interior, a bit like a 2D cross section of the Earth. The UK is also boundary-dominated, but smaller and with less of a coastal-concentrated population. One of my favourite pieces of accidental poetry is the daily shipping forecast which gives weather information for shipping around the coast, in a clockwise direction. Is there something similar for Australian coastal waters?

Greta wrote:It's odd, given that other great apes don't seem to have that same attachment to them.

That is odd. But maybe they just don't often get the opportunity. Maybe, as wandering apes, we discovered the coastal areas that other apes didn't find. There's a humorous stereotype that in European beach resorts German people always get to the beach first in the morning and take the best sunbathing spots. Maybe we're like them.

One element of the appeal might be the sound. Ocean waves, along with the wind, generate a specific sort of sound that has been found to promote good sleep and relaxation. This is generally known as "pink noise" and while it can be generated artificially, many people prefer the natural variety.

I was thinking that it was about the special qualities of boundary zones.

When it comes to boundaries there are two experiences I have of the beach. There is the boundary between the land and the sea. I am familiar with the land, less familiar with the sea. It seems so big and more than a little mysterious. There are many things in the ocean, under the ocean that are unknow and maybe a little scary. At the same time it has it's own kind of beauty. Then there is the boundary between the ocean and the sky. On certain days they blend together at the horizon and the boundary seems to disappear in a way that makes it seem to go on forever. People sometimes stand at the edge of the ocean and have a sense of awe

Calico wrote: ↑June 26th, 2020, 3:58 pmThen there is the boundary between the ocean and the sky. On certain days they blend together at the horizon and the boundary seems to disappear in a way that makes it seem to go on forever.

This is another popular boundary zone, more so for marine animals than human holidayers. While being technically part of the ocean, it has special qualities not found at greater depths. There appears to be an equivalence.

Greta wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 7:44 pm Out of curiosity I looked up beaches, the boundary point between sea and land. Interesting things seem to happen at boundaries, made unstable by the push and pull of the boundaries either side.

Unlike most of my searches, with the "beach" search I was inundated with ads for various "idyllic spots". What is it about beaches that draws humans to this day. It's odd, given that other great apes don't seem to have that same attachment to them.

My dog loves water. This is an inherent fascination and desire. She has to go into the water if she sees it. She is, of course a Labrador. This trait was encouraged and exploited by humans. Labradors are great fish hunters.
The human love of beaches may be nothing more than a trait which has been built upon as to a cultural norm of beach going.
Humans are a bit doggy.
In Bournemouth they were practically sniffing each other's arses in the last few days, so crowded as it was.
Were COVID more dangerous this trait would be less inclined to appear in the next generation - in fact so would any trait associated with crowd gathering. We can only hope for a reduction of football morons.
Sadly, of course, the population of the world has increased by 40 million this year already, and Covid, nor any other diseases have made the slightest impact into reducing the population.

Greta wrote: ↑June 26th, 2020, 10:54 am I was thinking that it was about the special qualities of boundary zones.

Anthropologists like to call them "liminal".

The sea, as well as being obviously cooler than the land represents a boundary of the civilised and the wilderness.

Sculptor1 wrote:The sea, as well as being obviously cooler than the land represents a boundary of the civilised and the wilderness.

And perhaps humans and dolphins would argue as to which is on which side, if we spoke the same language.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2020, 6:47 am

Greta wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 7:44 pm Out of curiosity I looked up beaches, the boundary point between sea and land. Interesting things seem to happen at boundaries, made unstable by the push and pull of the boundaries either side.

Unlike most of my searches, with the "beach" search I was inundated with ads for various "idyllic spots". What is it about beaches that draws humans to this day. It's odd, given that other great apes don't seem to have that same attachment to them.

My dog loves water. This is an inherent fascination and desire. She has to go into the water if she sees it. She is, of course a Labrador. This trait was encouraged and exploited by humans. Labradors are great fish hunters.
The human love of beaches may be nothing more than a trait which has been built upon as to a cultural norm of beach going.
Humans are a bit doggy.

Love of being in water is another interesting trait. Why do we love it? Might be be factors beyond the fact that we are 60-odd percent water?

And doggies have been artificially selected to be a bit humany. Given the historical connections, I am not sure humans are a distinct species rather than a closely tied symbiotic pairing. Dogs also have an interesting connection to the water. One thing that really brings home the power of genetics is how Labradors and golden retrievers almost almost end up dripping, no matter where they go. I've met just one of that breed who prefers to stay dry.

It's easy to take the various inclinations of our, and other, species for granted but they are quite odd once you drill down.

This reminded me of the BBC sports commentator who's been doing sports commentating videos on his two labs during lockdown. here's a watery walk one he did, they're all lovely and funny lockdown treats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26FIEX6muAo

Steve3007 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2020, 6:54 am

Sculptor1 wrote:The sea, as well as being obviously cooler than the land represents a boundary of the civilised and the wilderness.

And perhaps humans and dolphins would argue as to which is on which side, if we spoke the same language.

"Civilised" for me have never meant more than its literal meaning; living in the civitas. The wilderness tends to be cleaner, smells better and has more nutritious things to eat.
If cetaceans knew he horrors of "civilisation" they would certainly stick to splashing about, having fun and laughing a lot, which they seem to excel at.

Greta wrote: ↑June 27th, 2020, 7:07 am

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2020, 6:47 am

My dog loves water. This is an inherent fascination and desire. She has to go into the water if she sees it. She is, of course a Labrador. This trait was encouraged and exploited by humans. Labradors are great fish hunters.
The human love of beaches may be nothing more than a trait which has been built upon as to a cultural norm of beach going.
Humans are a bit doggy.

Love of being in water is another interesting trait. Why do we love it? Might be be factors beyond the fact that we are 60-odd percent water?

And doggies have been artificially selected to be a bit humany. Given the historical connections, I am not sure humans are a distinct species rather than a closely tied symbiotic pairing. Dogs also have an interesting connection to the water. One thing that really brings home the power of genetics is how Labradors and golden retrievers almost almost end up dripping, no matter where they go. I've met just one of that breed who prefers to stay dry.

It's easy to take the various inclinations of our, and other, species for granted but they are quite odd once you drill down.

When we rescued her, we took her to the garden where she immediately found the frog pond which was barely big enough to accommodate her body. She came out covered in slime smiling.
She was gently scolded, and has shown no further interest in that particular body of water.
Have you seen these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26FIEX6muAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x8KK
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