Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

[Mychael]

The Numbers 12 and 13, Fertility, The Zodiac, Religion, Time, Music and a Juries Common Tread

The Zodiac (Mazzoroth in the Hebrew Language Job 38:32) is the story of the Beginning of Creation of this Age right through to the End of Age (and Time as we know it). It is based on 25,920 years or Cycles and every House (or Room) of the Zodiac is 2,160 years long and there is 12 Cycles in the normal Cycles of Life and Light as well as 12 Cycles in the Darkness (Male And Female or Humanity). It is also translated into the 12 Months of the Year. Its is also the 12 Menstrual Cycles a Woman receives per year, the 12 Hours of Day and the 12 Hours of Night symbolized by a clock,the 12 notes in an octave of music, 12 members of a jury, the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 Princes of Ishmael, and the 12 Disciples of Jesus as well as many ancient stories that bears this same truth. When we followed the Julian Calendar it had 13 months to a year, and was changed to the Gregorian calendar in 1582. Jesus represents the Sun, (Son) the Light of the World, as well as the 13th Constellation - Ophiuchus (the Serpent Holder) which comes into play at the beginning of our current Zodiac wheel and then again at the half way point (12,960 years) when the Earth and Sun pass through the Galactic Riff or The Divine Cross, the Black Hole in the center of our Galaxy that aligns with the Mundane Cross (Earths Cycle or Circle) at 2012.

Initially there was only 10 signs to the Zodiac and that Virgo and Scorpio or the Eagle were one sign. God divided these into 2 and place Libra (the Scales Of Judgement) in between them. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel. As well in the Zodiac the Serpent Holder (Ophiuchus the 13th Sign) is set over top and between Sagittarius and Scorpio, Jesus, The Anointed One, The Unlucky Number, The Caregiver, The Shepherd, The Watchman are a just a few of the infinite Titles given for the One that fulfills this.
The 12 Menstrual Cycles a Woman receives per year is based on 28 day per cycle. There are thirteen 28 day months to a lunar calendar. The 13th cycle in Humanities Female Fertility is the time between each eggs lifespan. Each egg that is not fertilized is a representation of Christianity. (and other older religions that bare this same truth) Jesus for the sins of the Human Race. (The Zodiac Humanity the 12 Tribes) Each egg that is not fertilized has never sinned and dies shedding its blood for the sake of the cycle of life (eggs, humans to be born) Otherwise it would become an infection that would cause the death of the host (the mother) For it is also thru this that humanity has become conscience of the value of time.
Where are we in this cycle of time? The Kali Yuga. We are where the Serpent Holder releases his grip on the Serpent. It is given many names and descriptions from different cultures and religions and writings. Dark Times Ahead.
Ever wonder why there are 12 members in a jury? Our court Judicial System originally was set up from the example of Biblical Israel.
The 12 persons if selected properly originally would represent each of the 12 zodiac signs (the 12 tribes of Israel). The reason behind this system is that when someone is giving testimony, at least one of the 12 would know if the person was telling the truth or lying by the fact that they were of the same tribe, vibration, frequency or zodiac. It only takes 1 person to create a hung jury which means they wouldn’t be able to convict the person on trial. This is one of the most important ways the trials of law can be just. The Judge represents Jesus or God Watching over the 12 and the proceedings.

[Papus79]

I often wonder what the world would be like today, as a counterfactual, if the Babylonian captivity hadn't happened. We'd have no Abrahamic religions, if the astrotheology of the Babylonians and others who'd taken up similar views (ie. 10/12 signs, 7 planets, etc.) it's questionable whether we'd have a seven day week, twelve months, so much of what fired off the Renaissance was Hermetic thought from antiquity and alchemy, Kabbalah/Cabalah, astrology, etc. became all of the rage. It's tough to imagine a Pico Della Mirandola, a Henry Cornelius Agrippa, or Trithemius under such conditions and not only no Reformation and Counter Reformation, there'd be no Catholicism to reform and whatever strangeness the invention of the printing press might have found it would probably be quite different than the path we took.

As for whether that's in any way woven into the fabric of reality (for as much as I love reading people like Paul Case, Dion Fortune, etc.) - no clue, and sometimes I really think if there's any lasting hum of this as a reality we can interact with (ie. astrology, kabbalah, etc.) it's probably a man-made imprint on our environment. It does get a bit strange when you have to explain seven governors of the days of the week and the planets and that people claim that practicing with that in mind makes a significant difference over not doing so. All of that leads me to the concern that humanity could very well be gaslit til the end of time and not because there's some will doing this to us but because we're really trying to find a transcendent reality in what's more likely akin to a massive hall of living mirrors. If the universe has been this coy for this long it might be very difficult for us to do much more than enhance our sociology, our economics, our relationship to the environment, a lot of that through better science and technology, but then again those drawn to the mystical or magical paths would always be quite few and far between - ie. it's that whole control apparatus Jacques Vallee often talked about, one which I really think is much less likely to be any sort of conspiracy and much more likely to be feedback loops and lines of force in what's really a panpsychist's sort of universe, ie. balancing Vallee with John Michael Greer.

[MAYA EL]

I don't come across people that interpret things like this to often but when I do it gets me all excited lol I see things in a very similar manner to say the least! . Now that was the macroeconom so let's echo down to the microcosm shall we?.
The 7 angels in Revelation are the 7 chakras the 24 elders seated around the throne are the 12 pairs of cranial nerves and also the 12 tribes and the Throne of God is the sphenoid bone where are the Lamb of God is which is the pineal gland the cherubim and seraphim the guard the throne with their for wings are the 4 Wing shaped bones that make up the sphenoid bone which is also the Ark of the Covenant and the 2 Witnesses are the CNS and PNS . And then theres the hidden geometry but well get into that later.

[Sculptor1]

The Numbers 12 and 13, Fertility, The Zodiac, Religion, Time, Music and a Juries Common Tread

The Zodiac (Mazzoroth in the Hebrew Language Job 38:32) is the story of the Beginning of Creation of this Age right through to the End of Age (and Time as we know it). It is based on 25,920 years or Cycles and every House (or Room) of the Zodiac is 2,160 years long and there is 12 Cycles in the normal Cycles of Life and Light as well as 12 Cycles in the Darkness (Male And Female or Humanity). It is also translated into the 12 Months of the Year. Its is also the 12 Menstrual Cycles a Woman receives per year, the 12 Hours of Day and the 12 Hours of Night symbolized by a clock,the 12 notes in an octave of music, 12 members of a jury, the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 Princes of Ishmael, and the 12 Disciples of Jesus as well as many ancient stories that bears this same truth. When we followed the Julian Calendar it had 13 months to a year, and was changed to the Gregorian calendar in 1582. Jesus represents the Sun, (Son) the Light of the World, as well as the 13th Constellation - Ophiuchus (the Serpent Holder) which comes into play at the beginning of our current Zodiac wheel and then again at the half way point (12,960 years) when the Earth and Sun pass through the Galactic Riff or The Divine Cross, the Black Hole in the center of our Galaxy that aligns with the Mundane Cross (Earths Cycle or Circle) at 2012.

Initially there was only 10 signs to the Zodiac and that Virgo and Scorpio or the Eagle were one sign. God divided these into 2 and place Libra (the Scales Of Judgement) in between them. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel. As well in the Zodiac the Serpent Holder (Ophiuchus the 13th Sign) is set over top and between Sagittarius and Scorpio, Jesus, The Anointed One, The Unlucky Number, The Caregiver, The Shepherd, The Watchman are a just a few of the infinite Titles given for the One that fulfills this.
The 12 Menstrual Cycles a Woman receives per year is based on 28 day per cycle. There are thirteen 28 day months to a lunar calendar. The 13th cycle in Humanities Female Fertility is the time between each eggs lifespan. Each egg that is not fertilized is a representation of Christianity. (and other older religions that bare this same truth) Jesus for the sins of the Human Race. (The Zodiac Humanity the 12 Tribes) Each egg that is not fertilized has never sinned and dies shedding its blood for the sake of the cycle of life (eggs, humans to be born) Otherwise it would become an infection that would cause the death of the host (the mother) For it is also thru this that humanity has become conscience of the value of time.
Where are we in this cycle of time? The Kali Yuga. We are where the Serpent Holder releases his grip on the Serpent. It is given many names and descriptions from different cultures and religions and writings. Dark Times Ahead.
Ever wonder why there are 12 members in a jury? Our court Judicial System originally was set up from the example of Biblical Israel.
The 12 persons if selected properly originally would represent each of the 12 zodiac signs (the 12 tribes of Israel). The reason behind this system is that when someone is giving testimony, at least one of the 12 would know if the person was telling the truth or lying by the fact that they were of the same tribe, vibration, frequency or zodiac. It only takes 1 person to create a hung jury which means they wouldn’t be able to convict the person on trial. This is one of the most important ways the trials of law can be just. The Judge represents Jesus or God Watching over the 12 and the proceedings.

This is a website for the discussion of PHILOSOPHY.
Not mystical rubbish.

[Papus79]

I don't come across people that interpret things like this to often but when I do it gets me all excited lol I see things in a very similar manner to say the least! . Now that was the macroeconom so let's echo down to the microcosm shall we?.
The 7 angels in Revelation are the 7 chakras the 24 elders seated around the throne are the 12 pairs of cranial nerves and also the 12 tribes and the Throne of God is the sphenoid bone where are the Lamb of God is which is the pineal gland the cherubim and seraphim the guard the throne with their for wings are the 4 Wing shaped bones that make up the sphenoid bone which is also the Ark of the Covenant and the 2 Witnesses are the CNS and PNS . And then theres the hidden geometry but well get into that later.

I thought about this on the way home from work -

I think part of the reason I've been increasingly distancing myself from Hermeticism has to do with a particular impression I have of astrology. What I mean, we don't have a good word in the English language for this but what I'd be looking for a neat way to tie up - something that's both real and complete BS at the same time.

Meaning - we know with absolute certainty that we have at least 8 planets (possibly a ninth or a mini black hole on the periphery causing gravitational shifts), the sun and moon as planets or not planets floats on a humanly devised word with no physics ramifications, whether we say the solar system has 200 moons or thousands depends on where we want to draw the cutoff, and yet almost any magician I listen to, read, or have talked to would convey that without observing astrology very little of it works. You can *maybe* argue that they're just launch points for organizing your ideas to push off, but really - geez... should we be using E8 and some of the other crazy mathematical stuff that's actually out there instead? It's a bit like - we sold some local portion of nature (the conscious portion) on the idea that these things were both real and important, they established hierarchies and religions, and now they're still doing it hundreds of years after we figured out that it's not true.

That actually circles back to the both 'real and BS' thing in an interesting way. Considering that the universe might be a bit like what Donald Hoffman's ideas predict, I'm pretty certain he's right in the generalities if not the details, then as you figure that human beings believe in BS for game-theoretical reasons one could assume that magical work would be a thing by way of social BS and trading game theoretical heraldry with non-human sentience that operates on a lot of the same embarrassing social principles that we do.

[Steve3007]

The human tendency to assign mystical significance to particular numbers, even after those numbers have detached from the physical systems whose properties they originally quantified, is interesting.

So, am I right in saying that the ultimate source of all the many ways in which the numbers 12 and 13 have been imbued with significance is the amount of time it takes for the Earth to orbit the Sun divided by the amount if time it takes for the Moon to orbit the Earth?

[Steve3007]

There is also the fact that 12 is exactly divisible by a lot of numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12. Makes it quite a handy number in which to create batches of things that might need to be shared out. Bread rolls, for example. Better than that upstart, 10.

[MAYA EL]

You mention space and space is one of those things that just gets me all crabby lol because I feel like 90% of what science says about outer space is ether a lie or a guess because when I really dig into a subject I find what I think are contradictions all over the place and no exceptions for them .

[Steve3007]

You mention space...

Who's "you"? Where was space mentioned?

[Papus79]

Steve - I think this one's in the context of my last post.

You mention space and space is one of those things that just gets me all crabby lol because I feel like 90% of what science says about outer space is ether a lie or a guess because when I really dig into a subject I find what I think are contradictions all over the place and no exceptions for them .

I'd be curious which contradictions you're thinking of. Clearly there's a lot of weird stuff in the physics community, like a monolothic religion of string theory, and there are a lot of signs that group think is, at the least, slowing down meaningful work.

On my own digging though I look at it a bit like Darwinian evolution, ie. it's clearly right in the overtures even if the details are still messy or there may be grasp on certain very high-level or complex mechanics missing and those understandings might rotate the context of what we see and what it means to us a little but it wouldn't completely throw it out. I mentioned Donald Hoffman in my last post, he might be offering one of the more radical ways of both seeing why we're stuck where we're at with physics AND being able to tell people who've had all sorts of experiences that they're supposed to sit down and shut up about that yes - they're not crazy but at the same time what they're interacting with is just part of nature and a thing people spike down aggressively because it a big nail sticking out of the ground somewhere in the middle of the battlefield of the religion vs. science / science vs. religion food fight.

[MAYA EL]

You mention space...

Who's "you"? Where was space mentioned?

Well it's not you.

[Atla]

Astrology is a complicated issue. The 12 sun signs are of course real (knowing them well is almost vital for social life), but that's a biological phenomenon of temperate climates, especially where the four seasons are very distinct. Nothing to do with the sky, and the division into 12 is arbitrary.

Most people are stupid or psychologically blind or both, so they either flat out dismiss Astrology, or make complicated charts about planet movements, to explain the psychological patterns.

Imo it's better to divide the year into 36 signs, gives a much more accurate picture. They already did this by dividing every sign into 3 decans.

[Papus79]

I think a really good display of how strange things are around this lands with probably most of the GlitchBottle podscasts but I'm listening to #65 and they have a guy, Aaron Lietch, on who heads a Solomonic facebook group along with several other very well-known authors as moderators, and he explains how working through these systems puts you in contact with a kind of infrastructure that very much does operate reliably.

I get that it's there, that people can have transpersonal and transsubjective experiences, there's a particular Youtuber who I've been having a dialog with who has a number associated with his name and a lot of times when he writes me back I'll wake up for a brief moment and look at the clock at precisely that time. It's a bit like we're dealing with two worlds at once - one that's perfectly plain, boring, and predictable as most of our reductive materialist friends would say it is and then when you pull back and take a look at the conscious infrastructure it's a bed of white-hot jibberish and dream logic where you're halfway to sleep and have an epiphany over numerology and occult geometry that feels perfectly right at that point that you can't remember a lick of if you try to pull it back. It sort of sells me on the idea that we're dealing with something a lot more complex than reductive materialism but which is bound by laws that are very difficult to understand and which our everyday physics seem to emerge from as a particular layer of context.

What worries me a little - we might really be stuck with pluralism in the way Bruno Latour and other people like him would suggest, and it could be because reality is so multifaceted and contextual that it just takes the slightest shuffling of priorities or the place you stand in relationship to something for so many things to change. It's also where we may truly need to figure out how to live in a world where we've perhaps kept reason as a tool for certain kinds of engagement but are stuck giving up on it as something that can explain all of conscious experience. I would argue that there are better or worse lenses, and those lenses I think can be rated on both how well they keep you out of danger as well as from being a danger to others and how well they keep you from going crazy when encountering radical complexity.