Philosophy Discussion Forums

As the title says, could ideas be considered spirits?

I say this because ideas are:
Intangible
Can influence people
are transmitted through medium (art, movies, writing, songs, ect)
need to be tranmitted from person to person to stay alive.

Spirits if one reads about their behavior works the same way.

TimLear wrote:As the title says, could ideas be considered spirits?

I say this because ideas are:
Intangible
Can influence people
are transmitted through medium (art, movies, writing, songs, ect)
need to be tranmitted from person to person to stay alive.

Spirits if one reads about their behavior works the same way.

Ideas spring from experience. Experiences of our 3 dimensions. If ideas are spirits then everything is. However, what you need to define is the term 'spirit' rather than looking for them in things and then concluding a certain thing is a spirit. When you do that, what about the things you left out? What are they if they can't be spirits also?

I am classifying things according to behaviors and description,

Im trying to find something which illustrates what I mean, but my skilled in finding information are very sub-par

It has often been done, by poets especially, that ideas are treated as if they are spirits. The Greek Pantheon was composed of gods who were basically ideas. The trouble with such personifications now is that some people take a personification to be a reference to a material thing, for instance some people regard God as a person, or as something that exists as a tree, or a mountain, exists, rather than an idea.

-- Updated Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:01 am to add the following --

It has often been done, by poets especially, that ideas are treated as if they are spirits. The Greek Pantheon was composed of gods who were basically ideas. The trouble with such personifications now is that some people take a personification to be a reference to a material thing, for instance some people regard God as a person, or as something that exists as a tree, or a mountain, exists, rather than an idea.

Maybe the interesting thing about considering ideas as spirits is that , if ideas were real like a person or a dog is real, the idea-spirit would harbour intentions of its own so that if it were a mischievous spirit, it would intend and succeed in mischief making. I think that Satan is pictured thus, and various sorts of fairies have been considered to be mischief- makers that must be propitiated with small gifts of food.

Belinda wrote:It has often been done, by poets especially, that ideas are treated as if they are spirits. The Greek Pantheon was composed of gods who were basically ideas. The trouble with such personifications now is that some people take a personification to be a reference to a material thing, for instance some people regard God as a person, or as something that exists as a tree, or a mountain, exists, rather than an idea.

-- Updated Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:01 am to add the following --

It has often been done, by poets especially, that ideas are treated as if they are spirits. The Greek Pantheon was composed of gods who were basically ideas. The trouble with such personifications now is that some people take a personification to be a reference to a material thing, for instance some people regard God as a person, or as something that exists as a tree, or a mountain, exists, rather than an idea.

Maybe the interesting thing about considering ideas as spirits is that , if ideas were real like a person or a dog is real, the idea-spirit would harbour intentions of its own so that if it were a mischievous spirit, it would intend and succeed in mischief making. I think that Satan is pictured thus, and various sorts of fairies have been considered to be mischief- makers that must be propitiated with small gifts of food.

You seem to get the idea. Yes, people will take it as material things. That the point. People want to delude themselves, give them something that can be measured or seen, if only by effect only.
hHristinity. In america it is used to denounce evolution. The more and more you show them hard evidence, the more the adherent kicks and spits. Why?

It as if the idea doesn't want to give up its host.


As for food, no the mischief IS the food. The pain and suffering is the food.

Essentially, I believe that everyone experiences their own reality and as a result experience very different things. Spiritualists do support the concept that ideas and thoughts come from spirit, springing us in to action and work towards our spiritual path but it is ultimately up to us whether we choose that path or not. The idea itself is not spirit but, the abstract thoughts are put there for us to interpret by spirit.

It's clear that humans are not the ultimate system, that we exist within other larger systems that are nested within and interspersed through each other.

Tim, I think the issue with evolution denial is that for certain kinds of fundamentalists their promise of eternal life hinges on the literal veracity of their books of holy mythology. Since evolution does not concur with the 6-day creation of Genesis, its must be wrong. To admit that the sciences are correct is to no longer believe that little Johnny is happy in heaven and to realise that his life was simply cut short in a chaotic event. Some people are simply not ready for the harshness of their realities (often understandably so) and they cling to their beliefs like a lifeline. They will always be impervious to reason. However, each new generation sees through the illusions of their parents and progress continues.

Can ideas be considered as spirit? Yes

See 1a below.

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concept etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........

-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------

...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2

....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse

2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....

....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality aka spirit-2.........

......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......

......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........

r6

TimLear wrote:As the title says, could ideas be considered spirits?

I say this because ideas are:
Intangible
Can influence people
are transmitted through medium (art, movies, writing, songs, ect)
need to be tranmitted from person to person to stay alive.

Spirits if one reads about their behavior works the same way.

The spirit does the job of choosing, making one of alternative futures the present. Then when somebody dies, their spirit is judged for choosing the things that he or she did. So you can see the term spirit in religion is tied to making choices.

An idea seems to just be an object in the mind.

Belinda:

Maybe the interesting thing about considering ideas as spirits is that , if ideas were real like a person or a dog is real, the idea-spirit would harbour intentions of its own so that if it were a mischievous spirit, it would intend and succeed in mischief making. I think that Satan is pictured thus, and various sorts of fairies have been considered to be mischief- makers that must be propitiated with small gifts of food.

There is a sense in which ideas themselves can seem to harbour intentions and mischief of their own, as anyone who has ever got frustrated with their computer will know. Computer software is an example of an idea, born in the brain of a human being, that can be communicated to other people. In theory, if no new ideas are added by people, then it is an entirely deterministic system. Garbage in; garbage out. But people who believe that genuine AI might one-day exist would presumably argue that if a deterministic system like a computer program can become sufficiently complex then it can become indistinguishable from a mischief-maker and, arguably, it then becomes a mischief maker. (If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck...). My computer already sometimes does a very good impression, even though I'm reasonably sure that the programmer didn't intend it to do so.

In 90's a friend of mine stated, that, Universe is a resultant of chaos or fluctuation in the quantum wave. I wondered what a visual of that would look like. So I drew a sine-wave /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ and then I put some smilies in the trough and the peak of the sine-wave.

........ ........................................... ....
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

My point was that, there was this little entity in there, whose function, is to throw a monkey wrench into the quantum sine-wave system.

I was kidding, of course, however, we have some ole saying, that, a particle in motion, will stay in motion, or on its trajectory, unless some interferes with it.

This concept does enter in to mind in regards to space-time, that, has the property of gravity{ spirit-3 }.

We say, that, 'mass' distorts space i.e. mass distorts gravitational space, or gravitational space-time. However, mass occupies space, ergo, how is gravity as space, of space-time, differrent from mass occupied space.

Gravity is presented as a property of space-time, not just a space. Does this mean that 'mass', that, occupy's space, is not also time, associated/related too time?

Ive developed some ideas involving these two and a third that may eventually be considered to be another property of time. Dark energy.

Gravity = space and I speculate, a specifically positive shape geodesic arc of space

Time( ^v } = the observed mass as fermions and bosons.

Dark energy = space and I speculate, a specifically a negative shaped geodesic arc of space.

Space-Time-Space is what I feel a correctly new version of conventionl space-time. I can use a simple, tho not accuate, texticonic representation of this simple set as bi-section of a torus.

( t )( t )

There is much more to this scenario, however, what still comes to mind, is what causes the geodesic arcs to invert as our observed time and vice versa, what is it that causes the time trajectories to change direction and get back to continuing around as a geodesic arc, of opposite nature.

With fermions and bosons--- our observed reality as time ---we have charges{ + and - }. Some attempt to use electro-gravitational theories.

With my above, I'm introducing opposing shapes instead of charge. Charge may be more related to direction of spin, whereas shape may not.

Well, we may think that, it is the spin of something that causes its geodesic arc trajectory to eventually invert, and vice versa, its spin may cause the it to out vert back to continue its geodesic arc. This spin would be more local, that the overall spin of the torus we call a vector of space-time-space.

So we have spin of some entity, that defines Space-Time-Space, and,
we have a separate spin of the overall direction of the Space-Time-Space vectorial torus.

r6

Rr6 wrote:Can ideas be considered as spirit? Yes
See 1a below.
"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concept etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........
r6

Tim Lear wrote:

As for food, no the mischief IS the food. The pain and suffering is the food.

This was part of Tim's response to my saying how people propitiated mischievous or wicked fairies by leaving gifts of food for them.

I reply to the quote from Tim thus; but when a person tries to propitiate an adverse force the person is retaining some power to resist. We scientific people might say nonsense there's no connection between leaving some cream for the fairy and preserving the health of one's cow. However, the propitiating behaviour is a form of keeping control over wild nature. The method is different from ours we who give the poor cow prophylactic antibiotics. I'd rather have milk from the cow that was protected by a propitiatory offering to a fairy!(hyperbole but I hope you get my point)

I don't trust however in the sort of fairy or god that is satisfied to make people suffer for its own sustenance. If I believed in the Christian God I'd not choose the version of the Christian God who makes people suffer for his own selfish purpose.

It's true that some ideas are truly Devilish to the effect that the Devil cannot be propitiated by other than suffering. This idea is itself Devilish and we should actively oppose it. For instance I'd not withdraw painkillers because the Idea needs people to suffer, perhaps to serve the lie that suffering is good for their souls

You see I hope that I personally find it helpful to consider ideas as spirits which as near as dammit seem to have intentions of their own.

Correcting my below, I speculate that, 'dark energy being another property of space-time'....that I then relabel/indentify as space-time-space.

Spirit-2, 3 and 4 occupy space, or, exist as occupied space. imho.

r6

Rr6 wrote: Ive developed some ideas involving these two and a third that may eventually be considered to be another property of time. Dark energy.
Gravity = space and I speculate, a specifically positive shape geodesic arc of space
Time( ^v } = the observed mass as fermions and bosons.
Dark energy = space and I speculate, a specifically a negative shaped geodesic arc of space.
Space-Time-Space is what I feel a correctly new version of conventionl space-time. I can use a simple, tho not accuate, texticonic representation of this simple set as bi-section of a torus.
( t )( t )
Well, we may think that, it is the spin of something that causes its geodesic arc trajectory to eventually invert, and vice versa, its spin may cause the it to out vert back to continue its geodesic arc. This spin would be more local, that the overall spin of the torus we call a vector of space-time-space.
So we have spin of some entity, that defines Space-Time-Space, and,
we have a separate spin of the overall direction of the Space-Time-Space vectorial torus.
r6
r6

[/quote]

Rr6 wrote:Correcting my below, I speculate that, 'dark energy being another property of space-time'....that I then relabel/indentify as space-time-space.

Spirit-2, 3 and 4 occupy space, or, exist as occupied space. imho.

r6

Rr6 wrote: Ive developed some ideas involving these two and a third that may eventually be considered to be another property of time. Dark energy.
Gravity = space and I speculate, a specifically positive shape geodesic arc of space
Time( ^v } = the observed mass as fermions and bosons.
Dark energy = space and I speculate, a specifically a negative shaped geodesic arc of space.
Space-Time-Space is what I feel a correctly new version of conventionl space-time. I can use a simple, tho not accuate, texticonic representation of this simple set as bi-section of a torus.
( t )( t )
Well, we may think that, it is the spin of something that causes its geodesic arc trajectory to eventually invert, and vice versa, its spin may cause the it to out vert back to continue its geodesic arc. This spin would be more local, that the overall spin of the torus we call a vector of space-time-space.
So we have spin of some entity, that defines Space-Time-Space, and,
we have a separate spin of the overall direction of the Space-Time-Space vectorial torus.
r6
r6

[/quote]
I suppose you realize you use a language foreign to most of us. Consequently your stuff is both practically impossible to challenge and refute or support and expand. Maybe someone else will come along to mediate between your language and other user-friendly forms.

Grunth--I suppose you realize you use a language foreign to most of us. Consequently your stuff is both practically impossible to challenge and refute or support and expand. Maybe someone else will come along to mediate between your language and other user-friendly forms.

Rr6--Correcting my below, I speculate that, 'dark energy being another property of space-time'....that I then relabel/identify as space-time-space.

Grunth, I speculate that, dark energy is another property of space-time. Appears to me to be the English language being used there.

Gravity is property of space-time. H, mm another statement using English language, not foreign.

Spirit-2, as fermions and bosons that, occupy space also appears to me to be English language, not foreign

Spirit-3, as gravity, that occupy space, also appears to be English language to me and not foreign.
....metaphysical-3........

Spirit-4 as dark energy, that occupy space, also appear to be English language to me, not foreign.
.....metaphysical-4.............

I think some mental mental blockage must be occurring with those who do not want to understand simple English language when presented to them. Could be there are many different reasons for mental blockage that various with each individual.

Ive developed ideas that involve;

gravity, as a positive geodesic arc/curvature of space,--- appears to me as English language, not foreign --,

Time as a sine-wave pattern/frequency{ ^v } appears to me as English language, not foreign,

dark energy as a negative geodesic arc/curvature of space---- appears to me as English language, not foreign.

Ergo from the above we establish the following new and more correct expression for the conventionally accepted and known, space-time;

Space-Time-Space appears to me to be English language.

Graviational space represented by texticon ( ) as positive curvature of a torus, appears to me to be English language, not foreign.

Time as a sine-wave pattern/frequency using texticon ^v. Appears as English language to me, not foreign.

Dark energy space as represented by texticon )(, as negative curvature of a torus, appears to me to be English language, not foreign.

If people want to see foreign there may exist many sites in a foreign language. Just do internet search for non-English, foreign language sites.

There is only so much I can do to aid those people with mental blockage to English language, as stated by myself.

If they cannot allow their-self to ask for aid, then I am much more limited in my ability to assist them. These are all relatively simple ideas/concepts to grasp/understand/get head around expressed in English language.

Numbers to denote sequence or and order. Some numbers denote a specific distinction of different definitions of same word.

Enjoy or not

The choice is there for each of us to choose.

r6