Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[DarwinX]

I believe that the universe is like a 3D photo-plate which has Plank length [1.61619926x10 to the power of minus 35] - 3D pixels. Each pixel represents one ethon. Each ethon rotates at the speed of light, [its natural signature speed for its dimension]. This must be so, because when a light passes through glass the light slows down and then speeds up again when it gets to the other side. When these positive and negative ethons rotate around one-another they become matter or solid. Thus, atoms are made up of positive and negative ethons which rotate around one-another. Light causes the ethons to engage into contact with one-another which creates a moving wave packet. This gear and clutch action allows the intensity of light to increase smoothly and not in quantum jumps. But - when the light is received, the atoms can only acquire the light's energy in quantum amounts due to the integral structure of the atom.

Currently accepted reasons of why light slows down and speeds up again when entering glass.

1. The photons are absorbed and re-emitted. - [If so why don't they scatter?]

2. The bounce around and are thus delayed. [light should be more disciplined next time]

3. The wave length changes. [oh, so now its turned into a wave and is not a photon any more, pity]

4. It becomes a wave and is slowed down by drag. [oh, what a drag!]

5. When the photon approaches the glass it enters a change room and turns into a wave, before it exits the glass, it enters another change room and turns back into a photon. [science needs more change rooms to accommodate its theories]

If you don't find any of the above reasons are appealing you can use DarwinX's explanation.

The ethons are spinning at the speed of light, and thus, carry the light at a standard speed - once it has passed the glass.

[Atreyu]

Are you saying that "ethons" are exclusively what the Universe is made of? Everything can ultimately be reduced to an "ethon" ?

[DarwinX]

Are you saying that "ethons" are exclusively what the Universe is made of? Everything can ultimately be reduced to an "ethon" ?

Well, I don't know for certain. It is only my theory or way of explaining the unexplainable. I see spin as a force of nature. There is left - right or up - down spin. The speed of light is a clue as to the nature of sub-atomic particles. If light accelerates after going through glass, then, this is a big clue which we should take advantage of in the limited amount of clues or evidence that we have available. I picture the ethons as conveyor belts which transport wave packets. Conveyor belt rollers have a continuous spinning motion, but are not attached to one-another directly. When a light source contacts the ethons they click into gear like cogs and temporarily work together carrying the wave packet along. This is using a mechanical system of transport and doesn't rely on any magic. My theories do not use any magical solutions and I only accept mechanical solutions to problems. This is because the universe is simple and incapable of deception. Only humans are capable of deception and at deceiving themselves. Generally speaking, if nature doesn't fit into a humanly preconceived idea, then nature is said to be faulty, while the scientist is sane and nature insane or crazy. You see this many times in physics and science lectures and books. I trust nature to be honest and true and to never try to deceive any body. Thus, if we assume that nature is simple and pure, then mankind must be wrong in its analysis of nature by assuming that nature is difficult and complicated.

Note - That is in the general interest of scientists to make nature appear complicated and difficult, otherwise what purpose do scientists have if they aren't required to explain this difficulty?

In answer to your question - The universe must be a binary system which has only positive and negative components just as a computer program does. Thus, every atom is made of positive and negative ethons which may vary in number and combination. There can also be other influencing elements as - no spin, fractal dimension, time, explosion and implosion.

[Harbal]

The ethons are spinning at the speed of light, and thus, carry the light at a standard speed - once it has passed the glass.

What are "ethons" and how come you believe in them, does the government deny their existence, or something. Be careful about the speed of light, they could be lying about it.

[DarwinX]

The ethons are spinning at the speed of light, and thus, carry the light at a standard speed - once it has passed the glass.

What are "ethons" and how come you believe in them, does the government deny their existence, or something. Be careful about the speed of light, they could be lying about it.

Ethons are fundamental particles or things [maybe not solid as we think of solid] The universe is just a never ending succession of Russian Dolls one within the other which goes on to infinity both inwards and outwards. Ethons are just nodal points in space which spin at the speed of light. Don't ask me why they spin at the speed of light. Its just an observation. No, I didn't observe them physically, I just observed how light acts when it passes through glass and inferred that they must spin at the speed of light because, really, that is their only logical option as far as I can see.

Note - Nobody really knows for sure what the true speed of light is in one direction. All they know is what the speed limit of light is in two directions.

[Mechsmith]

Darwin, My thoughts--

1.There is probably no such thing as a photon. It's closer to a collapsed wave in four dimensions.

2. The waves are guided which is how a prism works. Play pool (billiards) much

3. Wave length could be approximated with size. Play billiards with a golf ball, a polo ball, a bowling ball and a soccer ball all at the same time.

4. It always is a wave. Visualize a wave in all the known available dimensions. Looks like a ball to me. Now try dropping some balls of varying sizes (Same density cause they are all made of the same stuff) in a water pond. Let the puff of mud when they hit stand in for your eyeballs.

5.Same as (4) It needs a change room no more than a nudist does. Once you kill the wave (or shoot the nudist) neither no longer exists except as a warm body. (or a flash of expended energy called light).

Why should your ethon spin Second thought--2-3-4-- are your best argument for an aether like space time. I know you like aether. Personally I prefer quantum gravity and Kentucky Bourbon

Think Happy, M. $0.02

[DarwinX]

[quote="Mechsmith"]Darwin, My thoughts--

1.There is probably no such thing as a photon. It's closer to a collapsed wave in four dimensions.

[quote/]

Can you describe how and why the wave collapses? I have never seen a collapsed wave myself and I have surfed the web many times.

[Mechsmith]

Try surfing on a beach for an analogy. The web only is full of people who try to make waves, usually unsuccessfully.

The only thing you have ever seen is collapsed waves. The waves themselves are invisible. This is a reflection on the design limitations of our eyes not on the inadequacies of wave theories.

However for instance, our skin is sensitive to ultraviolet radiation. You make it the same way you make light, just a little faster but you can't see it but you can feel its results.

There is a whole range of invisible radiations out there. There may well be nothing like waves at all but by convention wave theories work.

Of course we are talking about a lot of things all based on the unprovable assumption that we exist. Happy thoughts, M.

[DarwinX]

The Aether clock analogy - All ethons spin at the speed of light. Ethons thus contain spin energy. This is the source of all energy for the universe. The spin energy of the aether is used to keep matter stable and to keep the sun burning (reacting). Atoms contain non-spinning ethons at their centre which attracts spinning and rotating ethons which we call electrons and protons. The non-spinning ethons could be called 'neutrons'.

[Atreyu]

The Aether clock analogy - All ethons spin at the speed of light. Ethons thus contain spin energy. This is the source of all energy for the universe. The spin energy of the aether is used to keep matter stable and to keep the sun burning (reacting). Atoms contain non-spinning ethons at their centre which attracts spinning and rotating ethons which we call electrons and protons. The non-spinning ethons could be called 'neutrons'.

What is the position of modern science concerning the idea of spin? According to Leo, modern science might deny any actual spinning of subatomic particles.

And how does anything spin at the speed of light? What does that mean? Normally, we think of velocity as something moving, not spinning.

[DarwinX]

The Aether clock analogy - All ethons spin at the speed of light. Ethons thus contain spin energy. This is the source of all energy for the universe. The spin energy of the aether is used to keep matter stable and to keep the sun burning (reacting). Atoms contain non-spinning ethons at their centre which attracts spinning and rotating ethons which we call electrons and protons. The non-spinning ethons could be called 'neutrons'.

What is the position of modern science concerning the idea of spin? According to Leo, modern science might deny any actual spinning of subatomic particles.

And how does anything spin at the speed of light? What does that mean? Normally, we think of velocity as something moving, not spinning.

The scientific community has a hidden agenda and a conspiracy of silence in regards to spin in general. They know that elementary particles spin but they refuse to acknowledge this because it would mean rewriting all the physics books from scratch and they wouldn't want that to happen.

[Steve3007]

Atreyu:

What is the position of modern science concerning the idea of spin?

In classical mechanics, the equations of angular momentum are to some extent analogous to the equations that describe linear momentum - i.e. movement in a straight line. The linear momentum of an object is simply its mass times its velocity. So increasing either mass or velocity increases momentum. In the equations for circular motion, the equivalent of the velocity is the angular velocity (number of rotations per unit time) and the equivalent of mass is a quantity called "moment of inertia" (sometimes, for that reason, called "angular mass"). Greater the moment of inertia or angular velocity, greater the angular momentum.

Rotational motion in "classical objects" is observed to have various properties that are described by the equations of classical mechanics, and when you start looking at very small objects, in which the laws of quantum mechanics dominate, you start to find analogous behaviour. So, just as with the classical concept of linear momentum, some of the maths of classical angular momentum can be carried over. So, for example, in quantum mechanics orbital angular momentum (an object going around another object) and intrinsic angular momentum (an object spinning on its axis) are measured in exactly the same units as with classical mechanics (in standard base units: kg m² s^-1). But with elementary particles, the spin comes in discrete values that, for simplicity and brevity, are not normally expressed in these standard units of angular momentum but are expressed as multiples of a fixed quantity called the "reduced Planck's constant". It's been observed that they always spin with these discrete values. Electrons, for example, always spin on their own axis with an angular momentum that is exactly half of this reduced Planck's constant. This has profound consequences for things like the structure of the periodic table, in Chemistry.

Analogies to much of the behaviour of large-scale spinning objects can be seen in elementary particles. For example, when an electrically charged particle like an electron orbits something or spins on its axis, you can observe something similar to the kinds of electromagnetic behaviours which the classical laws of electromagnetism predict. The classical laws of electromagnetism, among other things, say that moving electric charges create a magnetic field. That's how a solenoid or electromagnet works - electric charge moving round and round in circles in a wire and result in a magnetic field. An iron permanent magnet works in the same way, but in that case the electric charge moving in a circle is a result of the electrons associated with the iron atoms spinning on their own axes.

There are all kinds of other ways that the laws of classical electromagnetism and mechanics inform our understanding of the quantum mechanical concept of angular momentum. For example, if you've seen a gyroscope spinning you'll have seem that it "precesses" i.e. its axis of rotation is at an angle to the vertical and it slowly rotates. (The same happens with the spinning of the Earth on its axis). There is an analogous behaviour in charged particles like electrons and protons which is actually made use of in medical imaging technology. Things like MRI scanners - "Magnetic Resonance Imaging" - use it.

So spin in elementary particles is pretty well described and predicted by quantum mechanics and those descriptions and predictions are used for lots of practical purposes as well as being essential to the properties of all the chemical elements in the periodic table. As to the question of whether quantum mechanics explains subatomic spin, or what subatomic spin actually "is", that, I guess, is where the philosophy starts.

[DarwinX]

And how does anything spin at the speed of light? What does that mean? Normally, we think of velocity as something moving, not spinning.

I am merely observing how light accelerates after it exits glass. I have inferred that the aether must be spinning at the speed of light in order to account for this occurrence. If the aether particles are spinning at the speed of light this makes a lot of other things within physics become logical which were previously illogical; such as energy = mass x the speed of light squared. Thus, if two atoms stop spinning they will release the energy of the speed of light x 2. This is what happens in an atomic explosion. The sun is also powered by the influx of spinning aether particles which release their spin energy when they contact the sun's surface. This is why the sun's surface is much hotter than the sun's interior which has been proven by astronomers worldwide. Thus, the heat and light that is produced by the sun comes from external sources and not interior sources. Matter is constantly being created every time an ethon stops spinning it creates the nucleus for a new atom. A neutron is a small black hole attractor which attracts protons and electons [or right and left spinning ethons].

[Atreyu]

Thx for the cogent reply, Steve.

It seems to me that the most interesting thing about Darwin's post is just the fact that cosmic bodies seem to spin even when taken on vastly different scales. While I'm hardly sold on Darwin's propositions, I do think that this observation of a general phenomenon of spin is quite interesting, if for no other reason than modern science has not concluded or postulated anything whatsoever in relation to it.

I mean, let's face it. The fact that atoms, moons, planets, stars, galaxies, and even clusters of galaxies all spin cannot be coincidence. There must be something important missing in the current model if it does not account for or explain this phenomenon (spin) which appears to be universal....

[Steve3007]

I agree that the common behaviour of rotational motion suggests that systems of various different sizes all have something in common. I think the thing they have in common is laws and principles of physics that cross scales.

If I had to identify the one physical principle which I think accounts for the ubiquity of spinning behaviour I would say that it is the existence of isotropic forces. That is, forces that appear to radiate from a point in space equally in all directions. The gravitational and electrostatic forces appear to do that. When you combine this with Newton's first law - the tendency of objects to carry on moving at constant velocity unless acted on by a force - circular or elliptical motion naturally emerges. And spherical objects naturally emerge.

I've simulated it myself when writing computer physics simulations. The orbits of planets is one of the easiest types of physics simulations to write because the physical laws involved are so simple.

-- Updated Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:11 am to add the following --

The key thing is that when writing such a simulation, nowhere in the encoding of the relevant physical laws is there any mention of spinning, circles or ellipses. Orbital motions automatically emerge by simply simulating an object which has inertia (i.e. "wants" to keep moving in a straight line) and which is made to accelerate towards a central point. That's really all you need.