A closely related question to the topic title is whether abstract time is objective? Because if so, we may never know the true nature of time. Now I turn the floor over to you.
PhilX
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Philosophy Explorer wrote:Yet we haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty, does time exist?Time is the abstract Human construct used as a measure of our perception of the process of change of states. Time does exist, yet only as a representative measure of something. Time itself is not an existent process, simply a measure of a process.
Spiral Out wrote:PhilX,This is the Philosophy of Science section. In the discussion of time in the time threads, abstract time was implicitly discussed whether it be to define it or in my Does time move? thread. If we know that abstract time doesn't exist, then there is no backbone, no underpinning to time measurement, therefore no science of time. OTH if we did know that abstract time exists, then there would be a science of time (measurement).
What exactly would be scientific about abstract time?
Spiral Out wrote:PhilX,Wrong. Just the opposite. Reread the topic title. I'm getting to the root of things. You can't do that with measuring devices such as clocks nor with calendars. So far in the other threads, abstract time is danced around without trying to establish its existence. You can talk all you want about clocks and calendars, which is subjective, but it doesn't say anything about abstract (objective?) time, does it?
You're basically asking if measurement exists. Do "inches" exist? We've already been through this.
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Several threads about time have run. Yet we haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty, does time exist? Makes no sense to try to define time with measuring devices like clocks or calendars without first determining if time exists because if it doesn't exist, then with or without those measuring devices (including calendars), we may be wasting our time trying to define time on the basis of measuring devices and time-explicit and time-implicit equations may have no backbone to them if we don't know whether time exists.How can one waste time that no one knows exists or not? What does it mean to 'use ones time wisely'? Maybe, use ones existence wisely? Don't waste your existence? don't waste your life. Dictionary meaning of life: 1) period of existence - meaning of exist: 1) have real or actual being, meaning of being: 1) existence 2) living thing, meaning of abstract: 1) expressing a quality apart from an object, meaning or object: 1) something that may be seen or felt, 2)purpose. Does abstract time exist. Seems so.
PhilX
TimBandTech wrote:Modern mathematics relies upon the real number, which is bidirectional, for representations in physics. This is a mistake, so when we speak of three dimensional space we should remember that this terminology is couched in the assumption that the real line is one dimensional. Time is considered in modernity to be one dimensional, but this can be disproven by the same experiments which demonstrate three dimensional space. It will be found that there is no freedom to move an object either forward in time or backward in time, yielding the experimental conclusion that time is zero dimensional. []...Everything you have said here is questionable at best. Time is not 1 dimension it's not even uni directional it is not hence 0 dimensional, it cannot be proven it has any direction let alone one or many. Mathematically speaking we consider time to be indistinguishable from its co-dimension space. We don't assume an arrow of time, we don't assume anything about it's geometry, and in fact anything we say about the geometry of time relies entirely on the geometry of space, which we may be right on or may not. Seems to work though...
[].. Short answer: yes, time does exist, but it is zero dimensional. We can do some computations with it but they do not render.
- Tim Golden
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Are you denying then that abstract time can exist?Please clearly and concisely define what "abstract time" is.
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