Philosophy Discussion Forums

I have been studying Anglo Saxon texts recently in particular Beowulf, and I have noticed Grendel there in a supposed monster who most think was actually just a Berzerker, or Bare Sarker, one who went into battle unclothed. In the myth Beowulf disdains clothes or armour to fight Beowulf on his own terms, thereby hoping to prove his heroism and pay a debt owed to Rothgar. But how do you see the myth, I would link either the prose or the films, but since I can't I would just ask that you either have read, watched or know of the myth before you post, or at least are interested in it. Thoughts, discuss. Is the Bare sark really a monster or as Beowulf says if not explicitly in the Old English prose implicitly that: "We men are the monsters now..."

Look at the wiki would be a good move, I can't link it but it's a good introduction to the myth.

"Wast Rothgar Haermed? Nain me haermed him not, wast Beowulf a main, nain mein mudder he was a monstor."

Grendel.

I'll be putting Beowulf on my list of Epic poems to read. (I'm reading 1001 nights at the moment . Currently on night 14!!! - by damned). The narrative structures of the Epic are something I'm very interested in tho. If I had any knowledge of this poem I might ask "what is the narrative impact of this moment in the story?" - from a stand point of pure interest. And the answer might shed light on the role of the character. But clearly, I cannot say much about Grendel...

Well Grendel is the son of a demon, who marries a Dragon and later marries Beowulf and has a son, you can see the circularity here but it is quite profound, Beowulf eventually kills all three I suggest you read it. It will put The Hobbit and set The Lord of the Rings up nicely to really **** with your mind. For example in context as Smaug is clearly influenced by the myth, and The Hobbit was a book written for Tolkiens children? That sort of genius is off the charts frankly. And Bard et al are clearly the story explored by Tolkien who was Professor of ancient languages at Oxford. It is a sort of plagiarism I suppose but one that I think is allowable given the breadth of his work.

It is an awesome piece of dark age insight which is probably plagiarised by many authors that followed after.

A Burglar Hobbit? Can we eat him.

And the trolls of course complete the cycle is Grendel really a monster, a troll or just a maine?

I also posted a thread on LOTRO but I think it got deleted my bad.

"sindon we bald sindon we strang, Eorlingas trum ond frum, sindon we bald, sindon we strang Eorlingas äre lang!"

"We are bold, we are strong we are Rohirrim, true and firm, we are bold, we are strong, Rohirrim riding out in glory/hope"

By Chance Thomas from the theme to Rohan>Roaming Free, on LOTRO.

Hmm. Can't read it now. I have still 987 nights to go. The Nights are another good work from the medieval period. Maybe not a true masterpiece - but for the golden period of the Muslim world I think "The Nights" is a philosophy in and of itself. Speaking of that, I should get to work.

I don't want to mess with your reading list but have you tried Don Quixote: The Man of Le Mancha. I think it would be right up your alley: when you get done with the 987 nights, and yes those stories are incredible -I have seen most of them but I'd give my right arm to read the original prose, in English not the original language obviously, I don't speak Arabic unfortunately.

Please don't use the w word, it should be added to the swear filters list.

"The age of heroes is gone and all that is left are weeping Martyrs."

Beowulf.

that reminds me read both Odysseus and David Gemmel's Troy if you have time too. Also Cornwell's Sharpe and other books especially the tales of King Knute> are a must. You couldn't go far wrong with Hornblower either or Melvin's Moby Dick either for both morality and history.

The way Moby Dick is written is in the style of rolling seas, that sort of poetry is once in a century, oh no wait maybe decade.

And finally if you want to see the Beowulf story without having to think too hard, watch The 13th warrior it is Dan Brown's attempt to sum it up, coffee table reading but...

If your bored it's actually a very good film told from the Arabian perspective of the tale of Beowulf.

-- Updated December 27th, 2013, 4:10 pm to add the following --

If I may make an analogy it is kind of how humans are now, but put in a way when humans were not how they are now. Less sheople I suppose.

Take that as you will.