Philosophy Discussion Forums

Azriel wrote:Personally, I see evidence of God almost everyday and while my understanding and perception of God varies from any other on Earth, I've yet to see evidence validating any other perception. Most people's understanding of God cannot be established by any written book and any book that anyone could offer would be invalid because it was written by a mortal, therefore subject to mortal conception and intrepretation. Today's christians believe in an all loving, all powerful compassionate god who will protect them and yet with all of the christians that havew perished unneccessarily over the last decade, clearly reveals that their fictious god is coming up very short in the protection department. At the same time, over the past decade, I've been witness to the demise of many an individual that dared to attack me or my God. The reason that God doesn't show himself to the average individual is because the whole concept of society's God(s) is a fallacy. The christian religion has long believed that they would be raptured up into Heaven to escape the great end time tribulation but there is no biblical evidence to substantiate that ergo I submit that belief is false. They believe in a God of wealth and abundance (albeit material abundance) and again while their is no biblical evidence to subtantiate that, there is countless biblical evidence to refute it. An example would be that a particular group of individuals thought that it was acceptable to vandalize me vehicle and while that caused me a financial set back in the tune of $200, the baby that flew out of thew car window and the infant that fell from a 3 floor apt. window, quickly revealed to these individuals that screwing with me is a very dangerous proposition. So if you really want God to prove himself to you, just come to my house and **** with me, and I can guarantee you that you will be discussing it with him personally.

While Azriel, you presented your point in a little more emotional manner, I do agree with your stand. The God the Christians worship nowadays is not what it seems to be in the present. As so called the "God's children" are being subjected to more and more disasters that God is known and supposed to protect. Even if, as so claimed, that God saved people in some situations, there is another possibility that it is not Him but the humans themselves who, with the measures implemented, could manage to do damage control in the case of a natural disaster. Therefore it is more likely for humans to save themselves than God giving a helping hand isn't it?

jezzeronthecoast wrote:Hi all.

One analogy I heard once on proof of the existence of God, and ‘his’ providing proof of ‘his’ existence. A man sitting in his kitchen one morning having breakfast, listening to the radio while having breakfast hears an emergency broadcast from the government informing of an impending flood, and strongly suggesting all in his area should evacuate before it comes, trusting in God the man decides to stay, the flood comes, and consumes his first floor, at this time a rescue boat comes by, the crew say to him, that he should get out, and come with them, the man says no, he has faith in God, the flood keeps rising and later the man goes to his second floor, the same thing happens another rescue boat comes by, saying the same thing as before, again he said no, he has faith that God will save him, the flood keeps rising until the man is on his roof, again the rescue boat comes offering him a chance to get out, and again the man said no, he has faith in God. The flood keeps rising and he is swept to his death. When he gets to heaven he is of course angry and said to God, I put my faith in you, and you let me die, how could you do that? God said but didn’t you hear the radio announcement, or see the rescue boats I sent.

God is the same with evidence of the existence of God, it can be difficult to see, and often is esoteric, and is in places that is difficult to see.

Thats just twisting reality to make it relative to what you want to believe. A bit like the many conspiracy theories that popped up in regards to 9/11.
By stating that God sent the radio announcement is basicly stating that man has no free will & God is responsible everytime that something good happens.

I have seen a few comments stating that if god prooved himself there would be no reason for faith. I personally find this to be a weak excuse to protect ones belief. But that is beside the point i want to make.
Didn't god apparently proove himself by sending Jesus to earth to be some type of saviour? Why not send down someone else to save us all from going to hell?

cynicallyinsane wrote: If there is a god, why doesn't he prove that he exists?
Why does he leave us without any compelling evidence of his existence?

Such as what?

I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God as it leaves too many questions unanswered.

I believe this universe was created so that God/Consciousness/Source could experience itself. We are all God in the flesh. This is the reason we will never find God proving itself to us. Maybe God knew everything conceptually but not through experience. For example, It knew what Love is but it could not experience it because nothing exists besides It. To whom will it show love and be loved? God desired to experience all possibilities of experience (Anger,Joy, Sorrow, physical sensations, etc). So it "divided" itself into countless souls to have this experience.

We forgot who we are so that we can truly choose whether to show love or selfishness. After death, the soul leaves to merged with God and shares with it its experiences.

Regarding suffering, I think suffering came out of ignorance of who we are. Suffering exists because God desired to experience every possibility. But that is only for a short while because every soul eventually leaves the physical plane and joins with the rest of God. When the soul reunites with God, it will be more blissful than before it left. To give an analogy, It's like a person who thought he lost his lover and later reunites with her.

Wars, poverty and crimes can only when we (Physical Aspect of God) decide to end it. The Impersonal Aspect of God simply observes humanity and takes in our experiences, so there's no point in interfering with our affairs.
I think this ignorance will not last forever. Eventually all of us will remember and rejoice on discovering our true nature. If we want to we can make earth another heaven as well. Many people now are becoming more spiritual than religious.

I believe that Aurobindo's vision of future humanity will come to pass. Just type supermind in wikipedia to get an understanding.

HE does not have to prove anything to you since there are people out here to do it for HIM.

God proves Himself in incarnation. Otherwise, He is not readily manifest. Most of the time He remains hidden, dissolved, as it were, in all existing things, and, in this sense, there is nothing on earth or in heavens, but Him. And yet, time comes when He gets concentrated in One Particular Being and separates from other things. Then He becomes manifest. Ultimately, He is a Person. That is why He yearns for personal embodiment, and will not find rest until He acquires such.

It is funny - we live in an awesome world and universe - what else would a God have to do to 'prove' himself? Whatever
else he could do mankind would still question it.

Any compelling evidence? Look around you and at yourself. There is compelling proof of God's existence everywhere you look. Do you think that the universes were created by pure random chance like in a big bang way? If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, then Something must have caused that action to take place. It is impossible--if you think for a minute--for random chance to cause so much life and the order of things.

Jorgea wrote:Any compelling evidence? Look around you and at yourself. There is compelling proof of God's existence everywhere you look. Do you think that the universes were created by pure random chance like in a big bang way? If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, then Something must have caused that action to take place. It is impossible--if you think for a minute--for random chance to cause so much life and the order of things.

Mind could not have arisen, if It had not been in the Beginning. Life could not have arisen, if It had not been in the Beginning. Body could not have arisen, if It had not been in the Beginning.

I do not wish to offend anyone, or their beliefs. This is just what I believe. In my opinion, their is no god. Faith is a good way to keep your religion alive, and was used by the creators of a religion as a way of saying, just because he exists doesn't mean their is proof. If their was a god, godess, or gods and godess', then their would be good reason to rely on faith.

All right, the fact is, that there are many reasons to that, but we just ignore it, intentionally or unintentionally; just like the "beauty" reason. One great reason is: we all see and accept that nothing is created out of nowhere, every new creation is the foolow-up of the older one. So take note, what creates has a creator, and there's no running away from the circle of life. The important question is: "What started this circle?" Isn't this enough evidence? I leave the answer to you.

The greater the power the more incognito it strives to be. The makes God as perfect in silence as it is in power, in short, a complete non entity which annuls any description of God!

Jorgea wrote:Any compelling evidence? Look around you and at yourself. There is compelling proof of God's existence everywhere you look. Do you think that the universes were created by pure random chance like in a big bang way? If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, then Something must have caused that action to take place. It is impossible--if you think for a minute--for random chance to cause so much life and the order of things.

No, universes were not created by pure random chance. They were created by natural physical processes.The 'Something ' is physical processes.

Kingkool wrote:I do not wish to offend anyone, or their beliefs. This is just what I believe. In my opinion, their is no god. Faith is a good way to keep your religion alive, and was used by the creators of a religion as a way of saying, just because he exists doesn't mean their is proof. If their was a god, godess, or gods and godess', then their would be good reason to rely on faith.

Here is another reason Kingkool: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Romans 18:20-21 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were they thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

An illogical conclusion can not be secured by scripture that recognises the illogical reasoning it attempts to overcome. In my opinion if god made an appearance you would not recognise it. It has no human image that we could recognise. How can a god that creates a worm that eats into a child's brain be seen as anything we could explain or understand. The only god that is constantly with us is nature. If nature was engineered by a sentient creature what a arogant and cruel creature it is.