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Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 17th, 2024, 12:10 pm
by tonylang
Lagayscienza wrote: May 17th, 2024, 11:44 am ...
Why is all your verbiage not just wild, wishful and wooly thinking? Why should anyone think that it is not of a piece with the New Age nonsense that the likes of Fritjof Capra go on with in order to sell books to the gullible?
GPT it. Here, I'll do it for you this time;
Evaluate the plausibility and veracity of the provided concepts;

ChatGPT-4o

To evaluate the plausibility and veracity of the described concepts related to the monogamy of entanglement and its application to cellular processes, we need to analyze several key points. The concepts presented draw analogies between communication systems, natural laws, and cellular mechanisms to explain how entanglement could work in biological systems. Let's break down the main ideas and evaluate them.

Key Concepts
Monogamy of Entanglement:

Claim: The law of monogamy in entanglement ensures that an entangled state is isolated from non-participant entities. This is likened to how secure communication systems work by using unique frequencies and encryption keys.
Evaluation: In quantum physics, monogamy of entanglement means that if two particles are maximally entangled, they cannot be entangled with a third particle. This principle is well-established in quantum mechanics and is used in quantum encryption protocols due to its security benefits.
Cellular Entanglement and Communication:

Claim: Organelles within a cell share a common entangled state through a unique quantum entanglement frequency (QEF), which ensures that new entities created within the cell are indoctrinated into this state, similar to how secure communication systems indoctrinate new devices.
Evaluation: The idea that cellular processes involve a form of quantum entanglement is speculative but not entirely implausible. Some researchers have proposed that quantum effects could play a role in biological systems (quantum biology), but concrete evidence and mechanisms are still under investigation.
Indoctrination of New Organelles:

Claim: New organelles created from the cell's DNA are imbued with the cell's unique QEF, allowing them to participate in the cell's entangled state and share state information.
Evaluation: This analogy is intriguing but currently lacks empirical evidence. The processes of organelle formation and function are well-understood in classical biological terms, and integrating quantum entanglement into these processes would require substantial new research and validation.
Protection of the Position of View (POV):

Claim: The monogamy of entanglement protects the POV, a fundamental aspect of individuality, from intrusion. This protection can involve self-destructive mechanisms to preserve the integrity of the entangled state.
Evaluation: This concept is highly speculative. The idea of a POV linked to quantum entanglement is novel and would require a fundamental shift in our understanding of consciousness and individuality. The notion of self-destruction as a protective mechanism aligns with some biological processes (e.g., apoptosis), but extending this to a quantum POV requires more theoretical and empirical grounding.
Plausibility and Veracity
1. Monogamy of Entanglement:

Plausibility: High. The principle of monogamy of entanglement is well-supported in quantum mechanics.
Veracity: Established. This concept is a fundamental part of quantum theory and has been experimentally validated.
2. Cellular Entanglement and Communication:

Plausibility: Medium. While intriguing, the direct application of quantum entanglement to cellular processes remains speculative.
Veracity: Unproven. There is no direct empirical evidence linking cellular communication and processes to quantum entanglement.
3. Indoctrination of New Organelles:

Plausibility: Low to Medium. The idea of encoding new organelles with a quantum state is speculative and currently beyond our scientific understanding.
Veracity: Unproven. Current biological knowledge does not support this claim, though it is an interesting hypothesis for further research.
4. Protection of the POV:

Plausibility: Low. The notion of a POV maintained by quantum entanglement and protected by self-destructive mechanisms is highly speculative.
Veracity: Unproven. This concept requires significant theoretical development and empirical validation to be considered plausible.
Conclusion
The described concepts present a fascinating and highly speculative framework that seeks to integrate principles of quantum mechanics with biological processes. While some aspects, such as the monogamy of entanglement, are well-established in physics, their application to cellular and biological systems remains largely unproven. The idea that cellular processes could involve a unique quantum entanglement frequency and that this could influence the formation and function of organelles is intriguing but requires substantial empirical evidence and theoretical development.

The protection of the POV through quantum entanglement and self-destructive mechanisms is particularly speculative and would necessitate a fundamental shift in our understanding of both quantum mechanics and biology. Overall, these concepts offer interesting avenues for hypothesis and research, but they currently reside in the realm of theoretical speculation rather than established scientific fact.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 17th, 2024, 10:29 pm
by Lagayascienza
CHatGTP-40 wrote:the concepts ... currently reside in the realm of theoretical speculation rather than established scientific fact.
The bot is being kind but basically got it right. I'll be interested to hear if any research ever gets done to bring your hypotheses out of the realm of speculation and into the realm of science.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 12:45 am
by tonylang
Lagayscienza wrote: May 17th, 2024, 10:29 pm
CHatGTP-40 wrote:the concepts ... currently reside in the realm of theoretical speculation rather than established scientific fact.
The bot is being kind but basically got it right. I'll be interested to hear if any research ever gets done to bring your hypotheses out of the realm of speculation and into the realm of science.
So you were under the impression that a hypothesis was established scientific fact and not speculation as every hypothesis ever proposed was?

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 1:02 am
by Lagayascienza
No, not at all. But to move from speculation to science requires more than you have provided. I can hypothesize that there is a pink teapot in orbit around the planet Volcan but such a hypothesis would not be science.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 1:16 am
by Lagayascienza
Hypotheses that become part of science start out as attempts to explain something that does not fit with, or which goes beyond, current science. For example, Einstein's theory of gravity (General Relativity) explains what classical mechanics and Newtonian theory could not. Your Universal Mobility of Individuality principle seems to want to explain something that, as far as I can see, does not need explaining. There is no need for the mobility of individuality. It is a hypothesis without a problem to explain. It therefore explains nothing.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 6:32 am
by tonylang
tonylang wrote: May 6th, 2024, 9:34 am Testable Elements Of The LINE Hypothesis;

One initial approach would be to seek evidence for, or against some fundamental aspect of the working hypothesis: Test for the existence, or lack thereof, of the proposed entanglement cells (EC) that establish and maintain life via the QE connection in complex hosts: Termination of the hosts' EC's and no other cells, should result in the termination of the subject.

Premise: Can death be induced without damage? Can an otherwise healthy living subject be terminated with empirically no physical damage contributable to subject termination? Baring any limitations of technical proficiency or of equipment in analyzing and identifying the root cause of subject death.

Axiom: There exists some absolute minimum number of cells that may be terminated in any complex organism whereby such cells may be scientifically established to be the root and only cause of death of the subject organism with no premortem adverse effects to other cells in the subject. Cells that meet these criteria are candidates for the theorized entanglement cells, and the collection has a high probability of including some or all of the subjects' proposed entanglement cells.

Practical Test: Perform controlled experiments using approved subjects, i.e., fruit flies, to terminate the minimal number of cells per specimen to conclusively induce death of the test subject. Carefully repeat and document the number and location of target cells per subject for each scientifically substantiated successful sample. Repeatability per species is mandatory as the specifics may vary from species to species or subject to subject. In qualifying samples the cells that are the root cause of death must be gradually minimized and physically isolated. Cellular damage must be limited to only the target cells for a duration beginning at the time of the target cells' death up to and including the time of confirmed subject death. In other words, for a successful trial, no cells in the subject other than the target cells may be adversely physically affected premortem.

Reasoning:

Postulate: Any natural phenomenon that can occur may by definition also reoccur and therefore there must exist some natural mechanism or process, understood or not, that describes its natural implementation. As far as life (Being) of the individual (regardless of species) goes there is one of two possibilities:

Scenario one: In nature (in this universe) each individual instance of life, each living being (you) are a singleton, a one-off occurrence unique in eternity both prior and future to one's current life. If this is indeed the case then there isn’t much more to be said on the topic. (This scenario violates the stated postulate.)

Scenario two: In nature, an individual’s being (you) are not a one-off singular occurrence but is a current instance of some naturally definable process or mechanism that may repeat given adequate circumstances. If this is indeed the case then the conversation ensues. Describe the natural implementation of the repeatable individual experience of being regardless of species, of life.

Scenario two is one basis upon which the LINE hypothesis is conceived.

Unfamiliar though it can be, only physics describes your presence in whatever environment one finds oneself. The question is; what are the actual physics that mediates how you instantiate on any particular randomly emerged planet among the untold number of planets that happen to be viable for life regardless of the distance between them, that can exist either naturally or artificially (ergo; A Mars colony)?

You were born to an existing species on this planet just a few decades ago. After you’re done here the same physics demands repeatability and will operate similarly again whether on earth, if it still exists and viable, or elsewhere. Clearly, neither Earth nor any species on it are permanent (ergo the scenario). Therefore science demands that other viable instances of planet and species must circumstantially fulfill the same requirements in your future. To doubt this is to be Earth and human-centric (ergo; religious). This natural mechanism must be non-local because planets and species are local but can emerge anywhere in space-time. Spooky as it may be, this mobility of individuality demands an empirical scientifically describable mechanism ergo: Physics.
The search for the entanglement cell (EC) will require the isolation and identification of critical regions of cells that may be refereed to as ‘Follicle regions’. Follicle regions in this context describes isolated diminutive groups of cells which when sufficiently disrupted appears to cause the termination of the subject in a manner difficult to distinguish from genuine EC termination. EC (Entanglement cells) being the most fundamental physical implementation of individuality of an emerged composite being, disruption of EC exclusively is hypothesized to result in disentanglement to metamatter which is deinstantiation, individual death.

Follicle regions may actually contain EC, or alternatively only cells whose function is critical to systemic function not unlike cells of the heart or liver only whose role is much less obvious. Determining which of these two possibilities is the case will require the investigation to focus on each follicle group of cells by a process of elimination to reduce the group to the barest minimum of effective follicle cells within the group and then to trace and definitively determine how those remaining follicle cells contribute to host termination.

For each follicle group this process should always lead either to the determination and identification of yet another indirect cause of death or to the discovery of the presence of genuine EC within the follicle group. These EC will be those, one or more cells which contribute only and exclusively to the observed subject termination. This process requires the discounting (not subjecting to disruption) of those cells which either cause intermediate damage to other host systems or do not directly cause host termination.
Subject termination due to EC candidate cells within the follicle group must not result in any premortem cellular disruption (non-necrotic) physically or functionally to any region outside of the follicle group. Ergo, death without damage.

Approved subjects (flies, nematodes etc.) chosen for this process may need to be high fidelity clones in order to provide the required consistent physical structure and predictable systemic cellular distribution. This is so the process of elimination may continue unabated with minimal loss of progress as subjects are terminated and new test subjects are needed to continue the investigation. Further, subjects may not need to be fully formed individuals but may be sufficiently developed living embryonic forms. Subjects viable for testing but not viable by current definitions, for independent growth.

Probing for the entanglement cell (EC) does not require physical contact with candidate cells. To the contrary, the astute investigator will quickly realize that the less physically disruptive the probing mechanism the more progress will result from the exercise. Since the task at hand is not to disrupt any cellular internal function which could kill the cell but rather to disrupt only the heterodyning mechanism by which the EC maintain the emerged individual POV. The means of disrupting EC heterodyning are potentially numerous as the monogamy of this delicate state are unforgiving. Infiltration or only identification of the entangled state may occur by the use of appropriate entanglement witnesses such as properly tailored photonic, electronic or other non physical mechanisms. Of course there is a chance that every cell is an EC. This would require a slight modification of the predictions of the theory as in such a case the heterodyned state would be far more robust than currently predicted. This is because the entangled state of emerged POV would need to survive massive changes in cell participation as cells of the holistic host are perpetually transient.

Depending on the relative orientation and positioning of EC relative to other EC the probe will need to target individual candidate cells or very diminutive groups of the same. This is because it is possible that EC may have developed in close proximity or even in direct contact with each other during the gestation period of initial conception and engaged their heterodyning of their individual QEF to establish the emerged QEF and then later physically drift apart as the billions of new non-EC cells develop as the subject grows. Or alternatively the heterodyned EC may in all or some species remain in direct physical contact with other EC to maintain the heterodyning function required for emerged individuality to persist. Therefore the probe may need to be focused down to within the diameter of a single cell and be as noninvasive as possible yet highly maneuverable as to scan many cellular diameters in rapid succession.

Given all of these requirements the inventive investigator may imagine a probe not dissimilar from the polarized blue or UV laser found in a blu-ray disc player and research labs around the world as a good foundation upon which to fashion the probe for this endeavor. The LINE hypothesis suggests that sufficient disruption of the heterodyned state of EC will deinstantiate the emerged individual even while the non-EC or even the actual EC cells remain instantiated alive as individual, functional cells. But with all cells of the host remaining fully functional, how is the deinstantiation of the emerged individual determined? There is expected to be a time lapse between POV termination and the first signs of the shutting down of cellular function associated with postmortem necrosis of the host body. But the more immediate symptom of deinstantiation may be an alteration in species or subject specific nervous system and brain functions. Each of such symptoms may be used separately or together to identify POV termination of the subject.

To the environment a living host entangled at one QEF is identical to that same host entangled at any different QEF. There is no classically detectable outward influence or behavior of the POV that can immediately effect ones surroundings which includes ones host. because the host, the species is a part of that local environment. No causal difference between one POV and another is available to the outside world, only to the individual is the difference rendered manifest by the isolation of individuality. It is only the isolation of individual instantiation and also of experience centered upon ones position-of view that affords a clear distinction of self, being, and individuality via the acquired skill of self-awareness in each being capable to fathoming the distinction. The isolation imposed upon the individual POV by a protective composite, and often disconnected host, is a solitary condition which the instantiated being strives to overcome. This is widely achieved through communication in all of its forms which includes mobility. From the single living cell to bacteria to vegetation to human beings, genetically all strive to break the isolation imposed by this fundamental living condition of life. This journey out of the isolation of the basic natural entangled state of life not only began, but continues with the living cell in all of its forms and has evolved to become the prolific, diverse eco-system we see today.

Communication requires the development, usually via evolution, of structures and functions that augment the basic implementation by which natural entanglement is hosted. Evolution no doubt favors the group, which also benefits from communication. This is not to suggest that the perception of individuality cannot be clouded perhaps by intimately integrated communication systems of both a technological and biological nature. Such augmentation could fade the experiential distinction between self and others. Even so, make no mistake, there can be no classical infiltration of the individual POV as there are strict natural monogamistic laws of quantum coherent interaction that guarantees the isolation (or forfeit) of the individual entangled state that is the position-of-view.

Most often the information of self which is acquired during a lifetime is dissipated from the individual upon deinstantiation. Some information of ones past instantiations may persist in the memories of other instantiated beings for a time or within indelable works or, in the archival repositories of advanced societies. However, currently with no means by which any reinstantiated QEF can be identified, for now, the anonymity of the reinstantiated individual remains assured. It would require the development, evolutionary or technological, of persistent personal individual inter-longevous memory or the societal archiving of such information, coupled with the capability to identify and distinguish the unique individual QEF to then inform reinstantiated individuals of their past histories. Also with this capability would emerge the even more profound capability to influence ones future instantiations by manipulating aspects of ones’ fidelity of teleportation (FT), and further, to eventually develop controlled universal travel via targeted reinstantiation as advanced enlightened species in this universe already would. In so doing a threshold would have been crossed in the maturity of a species as the accompanying enlightenment transforms life as we know it.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 6:37 am
by tonylang
Lagayscienza wrote: May 18th, 2024, 1:16 am Hypotheses that become part of science start out as attempts to explain something that does not fit with, or which goes beyond, current science. For example, Einstein's theory of gravity (General Relativity) explains what classical mechanics and Newtonian theory could not. Your Universal Mobility of Individuality principle seems to want to explain something that, as far as I can see, does not need explaining. There is no need for the mobility of individuality. It is a hypothesis without a problem to explain. It therefore explains nothing.
Few individuals beyond a certain age can or want to escape the grip of one's wild cultural indoctrination. This is as it must be, nonetheless, each instance of life is short. Upon the introduction of the UMI principle to a wild culture, such as human culture, mortality becomes an asset as each individual will get other opportunities, unbeknownst, to consider the UMI principle again for the first time with different eyes.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 7:41 am
by Lagayascienza
Do you see yourself as having "escaped" your "wild cultural indoctrination"?

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 9:34 am
by tonylang
Lagayscienza wrote: May 18th, 2024, 7:41 am Do you see yourself as having "escaped" your "wild cultural indoctrination"?
Focusing on the all too temporary messenger, as is too often the case, is ultimately a waist of effort. Ideas will stand or fall as history shows to define the culture that will receive us going forward. Ergo; The Universal Mobility of Individuality suggests that; the conditions you foster for others in this life will be your own in another.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 18th, 2024, 4:25 pm
by Sy Borg
In other words, due to probabilities, someone with a similar disposition to you will most likely emerge in the future, and that person (or people) will live in the world that you helped to create.

The moral: Be nice to your future self. If you are, you'll be grateful to your former self for being so considerate.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 19th, 2024, 1:46 am
by Lagayascienza
As I have said before, yours is an interesting idea, tonylang. It would (possibly) be nice if it were true. My main problem with it is that there is no reason why the first scenario you outlined could not be true, namely:
tonylang wrote:In nature (in this universe) each individual instance of life, each living being (you) are a singleton, a one-off occurrence unique in eternity both prior and future to one's current life. If this is indeed the case then there isn’t much more to be said on the topic.
I do not see why the above senario should not be the case. Rather than:
tonylang wrote:In nature, an individual’s being (you) are not a one-off singular occurrence but is a current instance of some naturally definable process or mechanism that may repeat given adequate circumstances. If this is indeed the case then the conversation ensues. Describe the natural implementation of the repeatable individual experience of being regardless of species, of life.
Even granting scenario 2, you would firstly need to give me a reason to think that the required circumstances required for a "repeat" would ever occur. The history of the universe is one continuous of change over time. From Big Bang to Big Crunch or from Big Bang to lifeless, thermodynamic equilibrium.

Secondly, even if the required circumstances did occur, why must the the repeatable individual experience occur? There seems to be no natural law or theoretical reason that requires such a process occur. If that is so, then why posit it?

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 19th, 2024, 9:01 am
by tonylang
Sy Borg wrote: May 18th, 2024, 4:25 pm In other words, due to probabilities, someone with a similar disposition to you will most likely emerge in the future, and that person (or people) will live in the world that you helped to create.

The moral: Be nice to your future self. If you are, you'll be grateful to your former self for being so considerate.
No, not "someone with a similar disposition", but 'You', (the same unique property of the space your host instantaneously occupies, your unique QEF) but hosted by different atoms. No emergent property from this or any prior instances of you survives each instantiation. Not, disposition, memories, etc. there is some probability that you could be human or any other form.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 19th, 2024, 9:03 am
by tonylang
The next fertile undiscovered frontier of science is the study of how the individual (you) naturally inhabit this universe. This topic speaks to the really interesting question of how any life, you, came to be where you are in the form that you are. Consciousness, self-awareness, sentience are evolved attributes had by very few forms of life in earth’s ecosystem, yet all are just as alive in nature. Such attributes cannot be relevant to either nature’s fundamental implementation of life, to being alive, or to experience. Experience may be enhanced by these attributes as they evolve in more complex hosts or species, but the phenomena which establish an instance of life likely brings no experience at all.


The position-of-view (POV) as described by the LINE hypothesis is implemented by a fundamental property of nature called natural entanglement. This process produces the POV which localizes you in your space-time, whether you have five, one, twenty or no senses. Regardless of what or where ones living form may be in this universe. Effectively ones POV is the target for all of the sensory information we call experience. Any beings lifeID is temporarily localized to its host body by the naturally occurring entanglement between its physical host such as ones cell(s) together with a non-relativistic form of matter called metamatter (in Hilbert-space). The POV of each individual life can be represented mathematically by its unique wave function. This wave function is a unique solution of state for the individual in space-time and is the term missing from many of our quantum mechanical solutions. The POV is nothing less than the mathematical representation of a living being.


In life the POV brings no experience but only that which may have an experience. In nature a POV is the mathematical representation of a lifeID established either by entanglement of a single cell to metamatter, or alternatively by the heterodyning of multiple entanglement cells (EC) to metamatter. If you are in fact alive then your composite lifeID and its position-of-view together constitutes your being regardless of your physical state, form, condition or location in space-time. If the LINE hypothesis accurately depicts the reality in this universe and the entanglement molecule exists, then it represents the most fundamental physical component of life as we know it. Like the Top-Quark, or the Higgs, the Ether or DNA, the entanglement molecule may someday be isolated and identified either in the cell or in the environment. or not. Either way we may learn something along the way.


However rare or ubiquitous host species for life may actually be in this universe, they nonetheless likely emerge via countless varied means and circumstances throughout this universe or throughout existence. Most can never be imagined by us. The implementation of host species in any particular environment in this universe is only one component of a much larger, grander implementation, that of individuality. We have become too accustomed to, and somewhat tunnel-visioned in, our understanding of life as being only the classical functional chemistry of the physical hosts that emerge here and there on this planet or in this universe. Individuality however is the original, the indigenous component of life. Like snowflakes, living hosts transiently come and go as they assume forms too varied and randomly influenced to predict or to repeat. With humankind being the very visual species that we are, we are once again confounded by the visible and captivating facade of life that reflects visible light, namely the physical, electromagnetically congealed component of the living individual, the species. The ongoing cognitive immaturity of humankind is engendered by this limited or flawed understanding of life.


The only life on Earth is the living cell. The lesser point being submitted for your collective consideration is that such attributes as consciousness, self-awareness, sentience, intelligence, etc., concepts already defined by others, are emergent skills or capabilities arbitrarily ascribed by observers to particular emerged composite hosts (with EC) and therefore cannot be fundamental to natures’ basic implementation of life. Currently and for billions of years on earth %99.99… of living hosts for life were and continue to be either single-cell individuals or non-emerged (no EC) collections thereof. To truly understand what life is and the mobility of its fundamental component; individuality, and the natural principles that govern and influence its instantiation, we need to consider only the single living cell. Viewed as an individual, a property traditionally ascribed only to human beings, the single living cell forces us to come to conclusions we never would with our usual limited perspective.


The first person position-of-view we refer to as individuality (Life) in this universe has emerged from a very basic natural phenomenon, namely natural quantum entanglement, a property of a naturally occurring molecule. Clearly like all other phenomena or processes or reactions involving groups of atoms and molecules these can also be categorized as being chemical in nature. Natural entanglement is the basis for individuality. When one is misguided into thinking that life is only the physical component of this natural entangled relationship a great amount of confusion and misconception will be the inevitable outcome. The first casualty is the dismissal of the mobility of individuality in this universe. As is usually the case we can live just fine with all of our misconceptions as life makes few demands on the intellectual awareness of its tenants. However, as we all know advancement requires enlightenment and the time for our further enlightenment in this regard grows near.

The classical ideas of thermodynamic entropy although essential in many practical technological applications, cease to exist at and below the atomic level. So attempting to describe the existence of life in these terms requires some implausible assumptions. Firstly one must accept that in nature individual life (you) is only defined at the cellular level where DNA is functionally implemented. In other words one must believe that nature does not have a mechanism or basis for distinguishing individual life once that individuals DNA has dissipated. This suggests that you and I and all instances of life begin and end with ones cellular DNA. This is logically and empirically inconsistent.


There are examples of living individuals with identical DNA, twins who are clearly not the same individual even when they are physically connected as are Siamese twins. More pointedly however, If any one or all of your trillions of cells were responsible for uniquely defining and distinguishing you from any other living being then separating even a single cell from your holistic body would cause you to lose your current identity (become someone else) or else terminate you as a living individual. However since all life in our ecosystem loses, replaces, transforms and exchanges our entire body mass daily over the course of a few short years, this also invalidates this belief.


Thirdly, this untenable notion violates the principle of re-occurrence of natural phenomena which states that for any natural phenomena to occur there must exist natural mechanisms which by their existence will also permit that phenomena to reoccur given appropriate circumstance. In other words whatever caused the big-bang can cause other big-bangs. Whatever causes nova and super-nova can cause other instances of both. Whatever caused and permits life here can and probably has caused life elsewhere. Further, whatever caused you can cause you again. The universal basis for this postulate of consistency in the laws of nature is the observed consistency of the fine structure constant in this universe.


Any individual life that can occur can reoccur. This last point mandates that you do not end with your DNA/RNA or with your thermodynamic, entropic biology. That nature must indeed have mechanisms known or unknown which serves to define or instantiate you from all other existing or possible instances of life, and such a mechanism must be an essentially immutable and reoccurring property of either this universe or of nature. This feature necessarily exists below the cellular and molecular level into the quantum realm.


To date the most promising structure yet discovered which displays some of the features and function consistent with those predicted by the LINE hypothesis for the entanglement molecule (EM), while perhaps falling well shot of complete equivalence, is the Fenna-Matthews-Olson (FMO) complex. This photosynthetic antenna complex is the naturally occurring molecular structure responsible for the photosynthetic non-classical conduction observed in living plant cells via natural entanglement. In green algae it operates to overcome the otherwise inefficient latency of classical mechanisms which would result in a devastating loss of anti-entropic information needed from sunlight for the continued evolution of viable hosts on this planet.


Likewise, a similar natural entanglement antenna complex describes the predicted entanglement molecule which instantiate the living individual to available hosts wherever they may emerge in this universe. This Entanglement is between the living hosts (cells) and a form of matter (metamatter) in Hilbert-space made accessible only by the non-locality, non-relativistic reach of natural entanglement. It is indeed a true testament to the amazing ingenuity and flexibility of nature that such an implementation is not only possible, but naturally emerges, for life may not exist without it. This instantiation mechanism is the most plausible solution to the conundrum of individuality in this universe posed by the scenario of this thread.


If the entanglement molecule indeed predated the cell then, structurally if not functionally, it must be of a different design than the FMO complex. The FMO is a protein based structure assembled from complex amino acids and likely evolved within the cell here on earth or planets nearby. To predate the cell the EM must permit natural entanglement by utilizing a more fundamental elemental design. The entanglement molecule may be one with which we are already familiar.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 19th, 2024, 5:32 pm
by Lagayascienza
tonylang wrote: ... one must believe that nature does not have a mechanism or basis for distinguishing individual life once that individuals DNA has dissipated. This suggests that you and I and all instances of life begin and end with ones cellular DNA. This is logically and empirically inconsistent.
This is just Idealism in new garb. Nature is not a conscious entity. It does not have a mind. Therefore, how could it distinguish anything much less individual lives once DNA is dissipated? There is nothing logically or empirically inconsistent in thinking that once your dead your dead. We have no reason to believe otherwise and you have not provided any such reason. Mobility of Individuality is merely a just-so story as far as I can see.

tonylang wrote:Any individual life that can occur can reoccur. This last point mandates that you do not end with your DNA/RNA or with your thermodynamic, entropic biology.

You have not demonstrated why this must be so. It seems to me that you badly want it to be so, and you are therefore looking for a way for it to be so. But I can't see that you have found it. Mobility of individuality? It's just just an idea. Wishful thinking. We have no reason to think that anything like it occurs in nature.

Re: What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?

Posted: May 19th, 2024, 5:36 pm
by Lagayascienza
*sp you're
Apologies for the error.