Philosophy Discussion Forums

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 12:51 am
Old philosophers were products of their time. In the future there may come a time when today's widespread acceptance of factory farming is considered to be barbaric, yet that does not mean that those who accept this barbarism lack useful insights in other areas.

agreed. I would probably be the same if I were in their time. But that does not make them or me acceptable. In the US South, old statutes are pulled down and tolerated, and place names are changed because the symbols do not accord with present -day values.

gad-fly wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 10:46 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 12:51 am
Old philosophers were products of their time. In the future there may come a time when today's widespread acceptance of factory farming is considered to be barbaric, yet that does not mean that those who accept this barbarism lack useful insights in other areas.

agreed. I would probably be the same if I were in their time. But that does not make them or me acceptable. In the US South, old statutes are pulled down and tolerated, and place names are changed because the symbols do not accord with present -day values.

I would say all of them (and you and me) are often acceptable, if not always so. "Acceptable", of course, is necessarily relative and subjective, but I think we have a common understanding that acceptability equates to causing minimum harm in one's attempts to thrive in life. That aim, alas, will become more difficult due to the difficult socio-politico-economic issues that lower living standards and create more intense competition for resources, not to mention the bitter battles over memetic influence.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 9:09 pm

gad-fly wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 10:46 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 12:51 am
Old philosophers were products of their time. In the future there may come a time when today's widespread acceptance of factory farming is considered to be barbaric, yet that does not mean that those who accept this barbarism lack useful insights in other areas.

agreed. I would probably be the same if I were in their time. But that does not make them or me acceptable. In the US South, old statutes are pulled down and tolerated, and place names are changed because the symbols do not accord with present -day values.

I would say all of them (and you and me) are often acceptable, if not always so. "Acceptable", of course, is necessarily relative and subjective, but I think we have a common understanding that acceptability equates to causing minimum harm in one's attempts to thrive in life. That aim, alas, will become more difficult due to the difficult socio-politico-economic issues that lower living standards and create more intense competition for resources, not to mention the bitter battles over memetic influence.

To me, acceptable is to take as what is, to the extent of denying welcome, consideration, or refusal/rejection. You can disagree and accept.

Old philosophers and factory farming are historical facts, denial of which must be out of the question. The concern is on their underlying value. Take slavery before the Civil War. It is not that slave-masters in their time is evil. Nothing wrong about that. In our time, we pulled down statutes not because of the person, but because of the value they represent. In Canada, they change the university's name because of his association with the residential school, even though he appears great on other counts. Value changes with time, but acceptance of fact/event does not.

gad-fly wrote: ↑July 7th, 2022, 10:27 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 9:09 pm

gad-fly wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 10:46 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 6th, 2022, 12:51 am
Old philosophers were products of their time. In the future there may come a time when today's widespread acceptance of factory farming is considered to be barbaric, yet that does not mean that those who accept this barbarism lack useful insights in other areas.

agreed. I would probably be the same if I were in their time. But that does not make them or me acceptable. In the US South, old statutes are pulled down and tolerated, and place names are changed because the symbols do not accord with present -day values.

I would say all of them (and you and me) are often acceptable, if not always so. "Acceptable", of course, is necessarily relative and subjective, but I think we have a common understanding that acceptability equates to causing minimum harm in one's attempts to thrive in life. That aim, alas, will become more difficult due to the difficult socio-politico-economic issues that lower living standards and create more intense competition for resources, not to mention the bitter battles over memetic influence.

To me, acceptable is to take as what is, to the extent of denying welcome, consideration, or refusal/rejection. You can disagree and accept.

Old philosophers and factory farming are historical facts, denial of which must be out of the question. The concern is on their underlying value. Take slavery before the Civil War. It is not that slave-masters in their time is evil. Nothing wrong about that. In our time, we pulled down statutes not because of the person, but because of the value they represent. In Canada, they change the university's name because of his association with the residential school, even though he appears great on other counts. Value changes with time, but acceptance of fact/event does not.

Yes, an ideology held by individuals may be more reflective of their cultural conditioning than their innate tendencies. For instance, I remember working with a Greek woman, who was pleasant and trustworthy, with a lively sense of humour ... unless the subject of Turkey was raised. In an instant she would transform into an unreasoning, wild-eyed racist. If she had come from just about any other culture, chances are she would have a far more positive view of Turks.

I have often argued that we humans tend to be like icebergs, with most of an individual's persona consisting of their underlying culture with just a tip of individuality showing. If interstellar aliens were possible and they visited the planet, they would see humans as being largely identical, regardless of race, culture and size. They would see us roughly as we see Labradors. The breed may be pale, black, tan or light brown, but they are often otherwise hard to tell apart until you get to know the individual dogs.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑June 15th, 2022, 12:02 pm

gad-fly wrote: ↑June 6th, 2022, 1:39 pm

psyreporter wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 3:47 am

Scott wrote: ↑January 23rd, 2021, 3:02 pmSince I have my other much more active website, OnlineBookClub.org, I am able to let this much smaller website use that website's vast resources at essentially no charge.

I pay over $800 per month for the server I have it on currently, so in theory at least the forum software should run fast and reliably. The server has a 16-core CPU and 64GB of RAM. I don't think it would run well on, for example, a $5 per month shared web host, especially considering those are generally always oversold (i.e. running over capacity). There are a lot of other concerns like the SSL certificate, the IP address, the MX records, just to name a few of the top of my head. Cheap shared hosts either don't offer these kind of features or charge extra for them. Plus, someone has to set them up and manage all that which can take quite a bit of technical knowledge. I think I put a lot more time into this website than people realize, which is itself part of the reason I don't have as much time as I would like to log in as a regular user and join in on the actual discussions, which I do enjoy very much when I can find the time.

Today, June 6, 2022, being D-Day, one can see all five Recent Topics and all five Book of the Month Topics posted by one person: Sushan.

May I suggest this imbalance posts a strong call for Reform of the present platform, to make the spending worth the trouble, and to re-invigorate philosophical interest?

I am afraid that I am writing in your thread because I am feeling so despondent about using the forum at the moment. It may seem that I am happy because I create loads of threads but it is only because it seems hard to create a thread which lasts more than a few days. However, it is not simply that people are only interested in the top 5 but that threads which are years old or over 50 pages long are often the ones which are being replied to most.

It could be that the threads and outposts are considered as brilliant and even though I do get a fair amount of replies to some of mine. I am sure that my threads are not in any way comparable to the ones which keep going. I probably wouldn't join in the discussions on these because they are so long and it would almost seem like intruding at this stage. Also, these long threads are so repetitive.

For this reason, I do create a lot of threads and I am really wishing to change the slants a little and try out ideas which haven't had much attention. However, if I try writing anything a little different whether it is about the ideas of William Blake or shamanism I realise that it is unlikely that it will get much of a response. But, it does seem to all come back to the perennial questions of philosophy and, of course, human beings ask these questions. I wonder if I am expecting too much from the forum and it is hard to avoid a certain amount of repetition.

The problem as far as I see is about how often it is only a couple that threads which are getting lots of responses, often in response to someone who appears provocative or annoying. I wonder if this is what drives many people away, as it makes the forum seem like a clique. I do read a lot of threads which I don't reply to and what seems to be happening is that people are discussing similar discussions in various threads, as if they are in little houses or in different tongues, like the Tower of Babel. It all seems fragmented. I have stuck around and do still try to find worthwhile interaction but others may simply give up on the site entirely.

As you know the "What is a woman" thread did not start out as the usual duality based good or bad debate. But can we have a successful thread without it? Can we have a successful thread which invites a third alternative or the ability to look down on ourselves from a higher perspective.

That is why I initiated the thread "Is World Peace Possible?" It may provide an alternative to the usual duality you are not happy with

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18109

Nick_A wrote: ↑July 9th, 2022, 12:47 pm
As you know the "What is a woman" thread did not start out as the usual duality based good or bad debate. But can we have a successful thread without it? Can we have a successful thread which invites a third alternative or the ability to look down on ourselves from a higher perspective.

That is why I initiated the thread "Is World Peace Possible?" It may provide an alternative to the usual duality you are not happy with

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18109

How do you tell whether a post is successful or not? "What is a woman" has 32 pages and growing. In tabloid term, it beats almost all in the popularity contest. But isn't philosophy forum supposed to be serious and critical, rather than entertaining?

If you aim for the volume of view and response, you should keep the topic invitational to all. "What is a woman?" rather than "What is a Black Woman?"; "What makes a woman not happier than a man?"; "Better being a man than a woman"; and so on. Then everyone can join in and have fun, none will be scared away by Black Woman, and we can even have commercial income, which presumably Scott will take into consideration with his $800 monthly expense.

I've recently read a book by the director of Deloitte's Center for the Edge (dedicated to the study of cutting edge technological developments) and he advocates a new concept: "a learning platform".

It seems that some of the critiques in this topic would be solved with such a concept.

A learning platform would be similar to a discussion forum such as onlinephilosophyclub.com however it would translate the contributions by users into a context. An example given was that discussions can be forked.

What is the right context? It would depend on what a learner is interested to learn.

My suggestion would be to allow creativity in context creation so that users can select an aggregate of content to support a vision, idea or a learning path.

--

With regard the forum. In my opinion it performs well. People that visit this forum are likely not the type of persons that are guided by influencer's marketing, e.g. a list with 'popular topics'. They seek depth and understanding on specific subjects of their interest.

The availability of a search would be sufficient for them. What rests is participation in discussions for the purpose of unlocking insights.

The age of questions in philosophy does not seem to be a concern.

value wrote: ↑July 10th, 2022, 2:21 pm The age of questions doesn't seem to be an issue on a philosophy forum.

The author of this topic might be Robert Pirsig (IQ 170), the author of the most sold philosophy book ever (5m copies). While his account is deleted, his posts are still accessible. Considering that you have read all his books multiple times, perhaps his posts (if they are his) would be interesting.

User: ChaoticMindSays
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=35658

The user introduced the website for Metaphysics of Quality www.moq.org and asked for feedback on the website: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4285

I am despondent about the layout of the forum, especially in discovering today that the current topics have been reduced from 5 to 4 today. In my experience of using the forum for almost a year and a half it does seem that unless the topics are picked up while they are showing in the ones on the current page they are likely to become lost entirely. I try to read all forums, including the "Book of the month", which shows up above all others. At the moment, I am aware that Scott, who runs the site is trying to engage people in discussion about his book. I would have partaken but I am unable to buy from Amazon current because I got a new bank card and don't know how to update the details. So, for this reason, I have felt excluded from the book of the month discussions.

I am continuing to engage and write posts and threads in the forum. I am having some worthwhile discussions but the realisation today that only 4 topics show up on the front page is leaving me feeling demoralised about the forum. Sometimes, people do search for discussions, but, unfortunately, what shows up on the front page is often important, especially with interaction of new users. With the reduction of the main topics from 5 to 4 today, as far as I can see this reduces such possibilities. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, or is just me who feels demoralised?

JackDaydream wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 3:27 pm I am despondent about the layout of the forum, especially in discovering today that the current topics have been reduced from 5 to 4 today. In my experience of using the forum for almost a year and a half it does seem that unless the topics are picked up while they are showing in the ones on the current page they are likely to become lost entirely. I try to read all forums, including the "Book of the month", which shows up above all others. At the moment, I am aware that Scott, who runs the site is trying to engage people in discussion about his book. I would have partaken but I am unable to buy from Amazon current because I got a new bank card and don't know how to update the details. So, for this reason, I have felt excluded from the book of the month discussions.

I am continuing to engage and write posts and threads in the forum. I am having some worthwhile discussions but the realisation today that only 4 topics show up on the front page is leaving me feeling demoralised about the forum. Sometimes, people do search for discussions, but, unfortunately, what shows up on the front page is often important, especially with interaction of new users. With the reduction of the main topics from 5 to 4 today, as far as I can see this reduces such possibilities. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, or is just me who feels demoralised?

Neither of us knows what other folks on the Forum do, but if you (and I) look beyond the first page seeking out threads to post in, why not suppose that others are similarly equipped and motivated to do so?

LuckyR wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 5:17 pm

JackDaydream wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 3:27 pm I am despondent about the layout of the forum, especially in discovering today that the current topics have been reduced from 5 to 4 today. In my experience of using the forum for almost a year and a half it does seem that unless the topics are picked up while they are showing in the ones on the current page they are likely to become lost entirely. I try to read all forums, including the "Book of the month", which shows up above all others. At the moment, I am aware that Scott, who runs the site is trying to engage people in discussion about his book. I would have partaken but I am unable to buy from Amazon current because I got a new bank card and don't know how to update the details. So, for this reason, I have felt excluded from the book of the month discussions.

I am continuing to engage and write posts and threads in the forum. I am having some worthwhile discussions but the realisation today that only 4 topics show up on the front page is leaving me feeling demoralised about the forum. Sometimes, people do search for discussions, but, unfortunately, what shows up on the front page is often important, especially with interaction of new users. With the reduction of the main topics from 5 to 4 today, as far as I can see this reduces such possibilities. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, or is just me who feels demoralised?

Neither of us knows what other folks on the Forum do, but if you (and I) look beyond the first page seeking out threads to post in, why not suppose that others are similarly equipped and motivated to do so?

It is interesting to think about what people do and where people lie on the spectrum in this forum. I am grateful to Scott for the creating this forum. It had given me some expression of my ideas, but still, at times, it does seem like an owner of the site, as a business entrepreneur, is able to promote his own writings, and many such as myself are regarded as of no significance. I am not sure that this is intentional, and I am sure that Scott us totally oblivious to difficulties of upgrading Amazon accounts. I am sure that he wishes to include as many as possible in his discussions, and it is not as if there are no threads apart from the book of the month. I

I will continue such discussions because I have a passion for philosophy, engaging in.and starting discussions, but the forum.seems so competitive at times, especially in what threads become popular or ignored. Popularity may be overvalued, and it is not as if I have not received interest and replies.

It is all about trying to find ways of finding the most worthwhile and meaningful discussions possible, ranging from the casual to.academic aspects of philosophy. This may be about surfing and survival through the tough seas. I try not to give up and I hope that other genuine philosophy seekers don't give up amidst the battles and confusion of ideas.

JackDaydream wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 3:27 pm At the moment, I am aware that Scott, who runs the site is trying to engage people in discussion about his book. I would have partaken but I am unable to buy from Amazon current because I got a new bank card and don't know how to update the details. So, for this reason, I have felt excluded from the book of the month discussions.

I am sorry you have felt excluded.

Please note, the book is not only available on Amazon.

It is available from all major book retailers in both ebook and hardcover format.

In fact, it recently hit the absolute #1 Bestseller spot on all of Barnes and Noble.


There are links to seven different online retailers that carry the book on the book's page on Bookshelves. Just scroll down a bit on that page to the section labeled "Purchase Links".

Scott wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 7:33 pm

JackDaydream wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 3:27 pm At the moment, I am aware that Scott, who runs the site is trying to engage people in discussion about his book. I would have partaken but I am unable to buy from Amazon current because I got a new bank card and don't know how to update the details. So, for this reason, I have felt excluded from the book of the month discussions.

I am sorry you have felt excluded.

Please note, the book is not only available on Amazon.

It is available from all major book retailers in both ebook and hardcover format.

In fact, it recently hit the absolute #1 Bestseller spot on all of Barnes and Noble.


There are links to seven different online retailers that carry the book on the book's page on Bookshelves. Just scroll down a bit on that page to the section labeled "Purchase Links".

I am just giving you feedback as you have created a couple of new threads on your book. I did check to see if Waterstones, which is the main chain in England, had it in two different stores. They looked it up and could find any record of its existence. I am not sure where in England it may be available so it may be that it more available in America than anywhere else.

Of course you do have a group of members already so you may be completely happy with than even though it is a different set of readers from those who regularly participate. I have explained my own problem with not knowing how to update my Amazon account with my new bank card. I don't know why other people have not downloaded it and it may be that many simply don't download books. So many people read ideas online but not necessarily as books. There are probably so many different approaches of people.

It just seems strange if there are going to be so many threads which only certain people can participate in and it may cause a splitting process.

I am sure that you have thought of this as it's your website and it may be that you are happy to engage with the people who are the premium members instead of any of the people who use the site. As you are wishing to create so many threads on your book it just seems a shame to me that all your threads are in this section and you may have got some wider debate if it was not divided in such an exclusive way. Of course, everyone can read the threads in that section and reading may be worthwhile anyway.

I am not trying to be critical. It may be that no one else on the forum even minds that there are threads which they can't participate in.