Philosophy Discussion Forums

Hi Admiral,

I'm pretty sure that its probably not expanding at all. The expansion is a necessary component of the Big Bang Theory. Since a BBT is rather popular right now the "red shift", Hubble Constant, Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, Dark Energies, and even the imagined polarized light gravitational threshold is taken as verifying observations.

In the same way religion responds to questions pertaining to things with long odds by resorting to imaginary concepts the Big Bang-Expanding Universe takes observations and attributes the results to an imaginary happenings.

It's too bad but confusing theories with facts seems to be a profitable human condition.

Mechsmith wrote:Hi Admiral,

I'm pretty sure that its probably not expanding at all. The expansion is a necessary component of the Big Bang Theory. Since a BBT is rather popular right now the "red shift", Hubble Constant, Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, Dark Energies, and even the imagined polarized light gravitational threshold is taken as verifying observations.

In the same way religion responds to questions pertaining to things with long odds by resorting to imaginary concepts the Big Bang-Expanding Universe takes observations and attributes the results to an imaginary happenings.

It's too bad but confusing theories with facts seems to be a profitable human condition.

Its all about making the religious leaders happy. The Big bang Theory was a compromise to satisfy religious leaders. Humans are egocentric and insecure creatures that need reassurance that they are not the only mortal creatures in the universe. Thus, if the universe, itself, is mortal and has a beginning and an ending, then this makes humans feel less vulnerable and more secure about the world they live in. The leaders of this world would really hate it if the universe had been here forever and would be here forever long after their short tenure or guardianship was over. Thus, we have to put up with this nonsense about a Big Bang Theory to satisfy the insecurities and megalomaniac tendencies of those that look over us (for our own good).

Mechsmith wrote:Hi Admiral,

I'm pretty sure that its probably not expanding at all. The expansion is a necessary component of the Big Bang Theory. Since a BBT is rather popular right now the "red shift", Hubble Constant, Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, Dark Energies, and even the imagined polarized light gravitational threshold is taken as verifying observations.

In the same way religion responds to questions pertaining to things with long odds by resorting to imaginary concepts the Big Bang-Expanding Universe takes observations and attributes the results to an imaginary happenings.

It's too bad but confusing theories with facts seems to be a profitable human condition.

While the universe as a whole may or may not be expanding, most galaxies within are on trajectories away from each other. The controversial part is not this cosmic expansion but the acceleration of the expansion (claimed by misinterpretation of red shift data IMO). I think red shift is due to trajectory not acceleration.

AB1OB wrote:While the universe as a whole may or may not be expanding, most galaxies within are on trajectories away from each other. The controversial part is not this cosmic expansion but the acceleration of the expansion (claimed by misinterpretation of red shift data IMO). I think red shift is due to trajectory not acceleration.

The "controversy" exists not because of any misinterpretations but because science refuses to acknowledge that this new finding (accelerating expansion) is strong evidence that their basic assumptions and theories are completely off the mark. It's "controversial" to admit that all of science's cosmological models might be completely without any real foundation whatsoever, that's all.

The accelerating expansion is occurring because BB theory is false. Total mass is not fixed, it's increasing over time as the space between galaxies increases along with it. This means that as two galaxies move apart, eventually each becomes a cluster of multiple galaxies, keeping total density roughly constant. The entire theory rests on a false assumption -- that total mass is fixed. It simply isn't....

Atreyu wrote: that total mass is fixed. It simply isn't....

Where does additional mass come from? (Don't say space.)

It appears to me that quantum space-time & mass energy all enter the system at a point along convergence of reverse extrapolation (not a singularity).

The duration from present day back to the observable microwave radition is not the "age of the universe", it is the duration of our current "time of expansion".

The processes at work over the expansion phase involve recombination. Mass of galaxies can grow via recombination. Total mass of system must be a symetry, overall.

It isn't expanding "inside of" anything. To ask such a question means you have the wrong concept of what current cosmological models state about the accelerating expansion of the universe.

Frank Aiello wrote:It isn't expanding "inside of" anything. To ask such a question means you have the wrong concept of what current cosmological models state about the accelerating expansion of the universe.

Exactly.

What we see as the universe is a quantum expansion of fractal units from a common source.

If we adjust our perspective to the logical relativity of the common source, we will envision the relative cosmic expansion (red and blue compared over time) as a secondary effect to the underlying quantum expansion. (black arrows)



Note the change of light trajectory from red to blue!!!
It is trajectory not acceleration!!! that accounts for RED-shift data

Philosophy Explorer wrote:It seems this question has no solution. Scientists say that since the Big Bang, the universe has been expanding. Okay I can buy that one. But then the question turns on inside of what? Another universe possibly? Or nothingness?

What say you to this?

PhilX

The universe is expanding inside the expanding itself. That's right, the act of expanding is itself the universe. In fact, the word "expanding" is a misnomer that tends to create some confusions. It should be called "ballooning". Yes, the universe is ballooning. So, when a balloon is ballooning, everything inside balloon is ballooning everywhere at the same time. So the act of ballooning of a ballooning is the balloon. So goes with the universe.

AB1OB wrote:

Atreyu wrote: that total mass is fixed. It simply isn't....

Where does additional mass come from? (Don't say space.)

It appears to me that quantum space-time & mass energy all enter the system at a point along convergence of reverse extrapolation (not a singularity).

The duration from present day back to the observable microwave radition is not the "age of the universe", it is the duration of our current "time of expansion".

The processes at work over the expansion phase involve recombination. Mass of galaxies can grow via recombination. Total mass of system must be a symetry, overall.

The additional mass is being generated in the cores of all large cosmic bodies via the process of pair production. If you google pair production you will find that the high energy conditions in which it can (must?) occur is precisely what we find in the cores of all large cosmic bodies due to the high heat and densities due to gravity and compression.

The reason why science sticks with conservation of mass as a cosmic law which applies everywhere is simply because it indeed does always apply in all of the conditions in which they've ever tested for it. But if they could measure the total mass of the Earth accurately enough (which they can't), they would find that total mass is increasing. However, total mass indeed always remains constant in the controlled conditions in which scientists have established it as a "universal truth".

If Universe expands and contracts, it is doing so within a macro-infinite, non-occupied space.

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........

-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------

...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2

....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse

2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....

....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality/time aka spirit-2.........

......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......

......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........

r6

The universe is expanding into the mega, infinite universe and it will continue to expand until it dies a cold dark entropic death, when its entropy state become infinite.
And it will continue to expanding into an infinitely large never ending void of vacuum until it reaches absolute zero, and just like all other things, it will ultimately die

This became the raisin bread analogy back in the 90's. r6

Pig_Genius wrote:The universe is expanding inside the expanding itself. That's right, the act of expanding is itself the universe. In fact, the word "expanding" is a misnomer that tends to create some confusions. It should be called "ballooning". Yes, the universe is ballooning. So, when a balloon is ballooning, everything inside balloon is ballooning everywhere at the same time. So the act of ballooning of a ballooning is the balloon. So goes with the universe.

-- Updated May 16th, 2016, 7:38 am to add the following --

Rr6 wrote:If Universe expands and contracts, it is doing so within a macro-infinite, non-occupied space.
Space ( ) is positive shaped gravity arcs as outer surface of torus-like pattern

Time ( observed time ) is inversion tr as sine-wave frequency pattern ^v^v or \/\/\/ or >< as inside body,

Space )( is negative shaped dark energy arcs as inner surface of torus-like pattern

(><)(><) is bisection of torus

.." We do know this: Since space is everywhere, this dark energy force is everywhere, and its effects increase as space expands.....It sounds rather strange that we have no firm idea about what makes up 74% of the universe....Dark energy both signals that we still have a great deal to learn, and shows us that we stand poised for another great leap in our understanding of the universe.".....
http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoverie ... energy.php

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality/time aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........
r6

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑August 8th, 2014, 5:57 pm It seems this question has no solution. Scientists say that since the Big Bang, the universe has been expanding. Okay I can buy that one. But then the question turns on inside of what? Another universe possibly? Or nothingness?

What say you to this?

PhilX

It seems so clear. There are two 3D universes (4D including time) inflated periodically into existence from a central 4D wormhole connecting two infinite 4D (5D, including time) spaces. In fact they have three more spatial dimensions, to accomodate the physical charges but these are tiny and curled up, so the bulk looks 3D and 4D.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑August 8th, 2014, 5:57 pm
It seems this question has no solution.

What say you to this?

I have just found solution to this question :

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13653&p=451318#p451318

.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑August 8th, 2014, 5:57 pm It seems this question has no solution. Scientists say that since the Big Bang, the universe has been expanding. Okay I can buy that one. But then the question turns on inside of what? Another universe possibly? Or nothingness?

What say you to this?

PhilX

The phrasing of the question demonstrates that you do not understand what Expansion means.
You say this question has not solution; but the question is wrong.

You might as well ask how square is a sphere. Or much cheese is in the Moon.