Philosophy Discussion Forums

Pattern-chaser,

In my post, I was referring strictly to “Satanic” in terms of the behaviours and attitudes that are biblically attributed to him. That is why I referenced a complete lack of ethical considerations, which is key. Biblically speaking, that mirrors Satan’s conduct and the strategies he employed. When people operate at that level, I think it is tough to be unbiased and not make negative comparisons. They may even inherit epithets like ‘monster,’ ‘evil,’ ‘demonic,’ etc., because they demonstrate a complete lack of compassion, empathy and remorse. So trusting them becomes foolish. As for Satanism as a religion, I don’t know much about it, so thanks for the link. When people consistently exhibit that level of behaviour, I think it says something about the type of people they are beneath the surface. I’m not going to draw any further distinctions between the people I’ve encountered and Satanism as a religion, as it doesn’t feel right. But as far as the Bible references him, I would confidently argue that there is a strong alignment.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 9:35 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 8:20 am But yes, there is a spiritual practice labelled Satanism too, which (from memory) is not what *you* would describe as "Satanic"...

Fanman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 9:01 am By all means, elucidate.

I know little more than you. I know that the Christians were very unfair to other religions, seeking to make their beliefs the only ones.

Let's just ignore the Ottoman Christian genocide and pretend that the west is always in the wrong.

Will such biased self-flagellation ever end?

Fact: The practice of Christianity resulted in better functioning societies than Islam, hence the massive flow of Muslims to the west but westerners don't want to live in Muslim countries.

Fanman wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 2:17 pm Pattern-chaser,

In my post, I was referring strictly to “Satanic” in terms of the behaviours and attitudes that are biblically attributed to him. That is why I referenced a complete lack of ethical considerations, which is key. Biblically speaking, that mirrors Satan’s conduct and the strategies he employed. When people operate at that level, I think it is tough to be unbiased and not make negative comparisons. They may even inherit epithets like ‘monster,’ ‘evil,’ ‘demonic,’ etc., because they demonstrate a complete lack of compassion, empathy and remorse. So trusting them becomes foolish. As for Satanism as a religion, I don’t know much about it, so thanks for the link. When people consistently exhibit that level of behaviour, I think it says something about the type of people they are beneath the surface. I’m not going to draw any further distinctions between the people I’ve encountered and Satanism as a religion, as it doesn’t feel right. But as far as the Bible references him, I would confidently argue that there is a strong alignment.

My personal preference, in a topic about spirituality, not about Christianity, is to avoid details that focus exclusively on one very specific religion. What does the strange Christian myth of "Satan" (i.e. other gods?) have to do with spirituality? Not a great deal, I suggest.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 9:35 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 8:20 am But yes, there is a spiritual practice labelled Satanism too, which (from memory) is not what *you* would describe as "Satanic"...

Fanman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 9:01 am By all means, elucidate.

I know little more than you. I know that the Christians were very unfair to other religions, seeking to make their beliefs the only ones.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 3:35 pm Let's just ignore the Ottoman Christian genocide and pretend that the west is always in the wrong.

Will such biased self-flagellation ever end?

This topic is about spirituality, and I was trying to veer in that direction, away from any specific religion or other belief system. All of the Abrahamic religions are exclusive, and ever open to promoting (or even mandating, if they can get away with it) their own beliefs over those of others, even if they originated in "the West". I doubt other religions are any better.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 8:56 am

Fanman wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 2:17 pm Pattern-chaser,

In my post, I was referring strictly to “Satanic” in terms of the behaviours and attitudes that are biblically attributed to him. That is why I referenced a complete lack of ethical considerations, which is key. Biblically speaking, that mirrors Satan’s conduct and the strategies he employed. When people operate at that level, I think it is tough to be unbiased and not make negative comparisons. They may even inherit epithets like ‘monster,’ ‘evil,’ ‘demonic,’ etc., because they demonstrate a complete lack of compassion, empathy and remorse. So trusting them becomes foolish. As for Satanism as a religion, I don’t know much about it, so thanks for the link. When people consistently exhibit that level of behaviour, I think it says something about the type of people they are beneath the surface. I’m not going to draw any further distinctions between the people I’ve encountered and Satanism as a religion, as it doesn’t feel right. But as far as the Bible references him, I would confidently argue that there is a strong alignment.

My personal preference, in a topic about spirituality, not about Christianity, is to avoid details that focus exclusively on one very specific religion. What does the strange Christian myth of "Satan" (i.e. other gods?) have to do with spirituality? Not a great deal, I suggest.

I see, fair enough. I won't continue discussing this subject with you.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 9:03 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 9:35 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 8:20 am But yes, there is a spiritual practice labelled Satanism too, which (from memory) is not what *you* would describe as "Satanic"...

Fanman wrote: ↑December 25th, 2024, 9:01 am By all means, elucidate.

I know little more than you. I know that the Christians were very unfair to other religions, seeking to make their beliefs the only ones.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 27th, 2024, 3:35 pm Let's just ignore the Ottoman Christian genocide and pretend that the west is always in the wrong.

Will such biased self-flagellation ever end?

🤣

This topic is about spirituality, and I was trying to veer in that direction, away from any specific religion or other belief system. All of the Abrahamic religions are exclusive, and ever open to promoting (or even mandating, if they can get away with it) their own beliefs over those of others, even if they originated in "the West". I doubt other religions are any better.

Why laugh about it?

If you are going to talk about Christians forcing non-believers to submit and not mention that Muslims were doing the same, then it's logical to point that out. It's tempting to say that Abrahamic religions are the problem but Judaism did not operate the same way. Christianity and Islam have been the religions of conquest.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 3:28 pm Why laugh about it?

I wasn't. I was laughing at your response. All you do is accuse me of the opposite of what I say. <baffled>

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 8:56 am My personal preference, in a topic about spirituality, not about Christianity, is to avoid details that focus exclusively on one very specific religion. What does the strange Christian myth of "Satan" (i.e. other gods?) have to do with spirituality? Not a great deal, I suggest.

Fanman wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 11:00 am I see, fair enough. I won't continue discussing this subject with you.

Sorry! I didn't mean to seem dismissive, but only anxious to escape from the unhelpful bogey-man view of "Satan" that Christians have promoted for so many centuries. I just can't see how that fits usefully into a discussion about spirituality.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 30th, 2024, 8:30 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 3:28 pm Why laugh about it?

I wasn't. I was laughing at your response. All you do is accuse me of the opposite of what I say. <baffled>

That makes no sense.

You criticised Christianity as invasive, while not mentioning the invasiveness of Islam. It seems that kicking Christians while giving Muslims a free pass is typical in 2024 Britain.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 30th, 2024, 8:34 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 8:56 am My personal preference, in a topic about spirituality, not about Christianity, is to avoid details that focus exclusively on one very specific religion. What does the strange Christian myth of "Satan" (i.e. other gods?) have to do with spirituality? Not a great deal, I suggest.

Fanman wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 11:00 am I see, fair enough. I won't continue discussing this subject with you.

Sorry! I didn't mean to seem dismissive, but only anxious to escape from the unhelpful bogey-man view of "Satan" that Christians have promoted for so many centuries. I just can't see how that fits usefully into a discussion about spirituality.

I'm unsure how to reply, as I don't fully understand the logic behind what you are saying. So I'll ask you a question instead. Please define "usefully" within the context you mean. Are you implying I am not contributing effectively or productively to the discussion? If I am correct, why not just come out and say so?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 29th, 2024, 8:56 am My personal preference, in a topic about spirituality, not about Christianity, is to avoid details that focus exclusively on one very specific religion. What does the strange Christian myth of "Satan" (i.e. other gods?) have to do with spirituality? Not a great deal, I suggest.

...

Sorry! I didn't mean to seem dismissive, but only anxious to escape from the unhelpful bogey-man view of "Satan" that Christians have promoted for so many centuries. I just can't see how that fits usefully into a discussion about spirituality.

Many religions have the concept of evil spirits.

Satan (= al-Shaitan, the devil) is a feature of Islam in much the same way as he features in Christianity. My understanding is that these two religions come closer to dualism (= an evil god who is the dark mirror-image of the good God) than most other religions, which tend to see devils/demons as multiple and less-powerful.

The idea that Satan has been unfairly "demonised" is somewhat comic...

I struggle to see satanism (=the worship of Satan) as anything other than an expression of adolescent rebellion - opposition for its own sake.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 30th, 2024, 3:21 pm You criticised Christianity as invasive, while not mentioning the invasiveness of Islam. It seems that kicking Christians while giving Muslims a free pass is typical in 2024 Britain.

Ah. If you look back, you'll see I wrote "exclusive", not "invasive". "Exclusive", meaning that they believe they are in possession of the One and Only Truth, and that, therefore, all other beliefs, or even shades of opinion, are necessarily incorrect. Judaism follows the other two in this particular way.

In contrast, Taoism and Buddhism often quote one another's texts, or even use them in their own teaching.

Fanman wrote: ↑December 30th, 2024, 10:45 pm Are you implying I am not contributing effectively or productively to the discussion?

No. I have become quite lost here. You seem to take meaning from my words that I didn't intend. Probably my fault. Sorry.

Good_Egg wrote: ↑December 31st, 2024, 7:24 am Many religions have the concept of evil spirits.

Satan (= al-Shaitan, the devil) is a feature of Islam in much the same way as he features in Christianity. My understanding is that these two religions come closer to dualism (= an evil god who is the dark mirror-image of the good God) than most other religions, which tend to see devils/demons as multiple and less-powerful.

The idea that Satan has been unfairly "demonised" is somewhat comic...

I struggle to see satanism (=the worship of Satan) as anything other than an expression of adolescent rebellion - opposition for its own sake.

There are those who venerate Satan in quite a different way from what you are describing. Did you see the link I posted earlier, to the Wikipedia entry on contemporary Satanists? [I am not one of them, btw. ] They do not seem to match up to your apparent expectations...

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 31st, 2024, 8:34 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑December 30th, 2024, 3:21 pm You criticised Christianity as invasive, while not mentioning the invasiveness of Islam. It seems that kicking Christians while giving Muslims a free pass is typical in 2024 Britain.

Ah. If you look back, you'll see I wrote "exclusive", not "invasive". "Exclusive", meaning that they believe they are in possession of the One and Only Truth, and that, therefore, all other beliefs, or even shades of opinion, are necessarily incorrect. Judaism follows the other two in this particular way.

In contrast, Taoism and Buddhism often quote one another's texts, or even use them in their own teaching.

Exclusive, invasive - you said, " I know that the Christians were very unfair to other religions, seeking to make their beliefs the only ones".

That clearly applies to Muslims too, although I understand that the British in 2024 can never criticise Islam, only Christianity. At least Christians don't deliver death sentences for apostasy.