Philosophy Discussion Forums

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 1:24 am

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:50 amHere's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

...

All Great choices. I might have added Bjork too but thought she started in the late 80s.

Papus79 wrote:Here's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

Personally I'm not a fan of the idea of having respect for bands. Too worthy.
"They've got nothing but total respect for,
They've got nothing but total respect for,
They've got nothing but total respect for,
Annie Lennox."

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Here's a question.
Is all sound music?
Is all sound made by humans music?
Are there any criteria by which you determine what is and what is not music?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am Music is whatever is presented as music.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm Why are you avoiding the questions?

I'm not. Any 'noise' that is presented to us as music, is music. We like it or we don't. The judgement of music is a wholly personal affair, so the results of such judgements apply only to the person who made them. Whatever their reasons for believing as they do doesn't matter. These reasons are wholly personal, so no extension of such reasoning, from the personal to general, is possible or correct.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 7:18 am Just a quick aside to this conversation, that seems to be reaching its natural end: do you like Matching Mole? In between being ejected from the band he formed, and breaking his back, Robert Wyatt formed Matching Mole, a pun on the French Machine Molle ("Soft Machine"). Another fine little band, IMO.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 1:16 am Somehow I missed them all these years. Just listening now, seems like something that will take a few listens to understand. Reminds me of Hatfield and the North. Quite a rhythm section. The bass playing by Bill McCormack is bizarre I know of him from Quiet Sun and 801.

In that case, I'm glad I was able to introduce them to you. Enjoy.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 7:35 am

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Here's a question.
Is all sound music?
Is all sound made by humans music?
Are there any criteria by which you determine what is and what is not music?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am Music is whatever is presented as music.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm Why are you avoiding the questions?

I'm not. Any 'noise' that is presented to us as music, is music. We like it or we don't. The judgement of music is a wholly personal affair, so the results of such judgements apply only to the person who made them. Whatever their reasons for believing as they do doesn't matter. These reasons are wholly personal, so no extension of such reasoning, from the personal to general, is possible or correct.

So you have no standards.
Well excuse me if I do.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 7:17 am

More ****.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 10:25 am So you have no standards.
Well excuse me if I do.

How can there be standards - 'objective', impartial and universal things that apply to all music - when our judgements of music are inescapably personal? You may apply such standards as you choose, of course, but your standards are not universal or universally agreed and accepted. I simply accept this, and also accept the obvious futility of trying to universalise something that is intrinsically personal to each and every music-lover. Your reasoning appears to lead to 'objective' beauty (if music is "beautiful"?), which is impossible, impractical, and thus useless.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:22 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 10:25 am So you have no standards.
Well excuse me if I do.

How can there be standards - 'objective', impartial and universal things that apply to all music -

When did I say there was????

..when our judgements of music are inescapably personal? You may apply such standards as you choose, of course, but your standards are not universal or universally agreed and accepted. I simply accept this, and also accept the obvious futility of trying to universalise something that is intrinsically personal to each and every music-lover. Your reasoning appears to lead to 'objective' beauty (if music is "beautiful"?), which is impossible, impractical, and thus useless.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 10:25 am So you have no standards.
Well excuse me if I do.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:22 pm How can there be standards - 'objective', impartial and universal things that apply to all music -

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:24 pm When did I say there was????

You didn't, explicitly, but "standards" are actually meaningless if they apply to only one person. The word requires - if it is to carry a useful meaning - that these standards are universal, or something pretty close to it.

Dictionary.com wrote:Standard noun - something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model.

Such a "basis for comparison" needs to be universal ("considered" "by general consent", as the definition describes).

I'm not even going to make a point to post 'good' dnb for a while - mediocre will do just fine.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:37 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 10:25 am So you have no standards.
Well excuse me if I do.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:22 pm How can there be standards - 'objective', impartial and universal things that apply to all music -

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 12:24 pm When did I say there was????

You didn't, explicitly, but "standards" are actually meaningless if they apply to only one person. The word requires - if it is to carry a useful meaning - that these standards are universal, or something pretty close to it.

Dictionary.com wrote:Standard noun - something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model.

Such a "basis for comparison" needs to be universal ("considered" "by general consent", as the definition describes).

You are tilting at windmills.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 6:47 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 1:24 am

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:50 amHere's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

...

All Great choices. I might have added Bjork too but thought she started in the late 80s.

I wasn't aware of how long she's been going. To me, she is just another of those "new" artists :)