Philosophy Discussion Forums

Another measure one could use:

1) All musicians are musicians because they failed at sports, ie. inferior athletic prowess.
2) Music is for weak people by weak people.
3) All musicians, and people who listen to their 'product', should be hung from a fence poll by their boxers.

I've run into some people who at least have 'some' version of this so I'm not really making it up off the cuff.

Is it valid though? Discuss.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am I don't like dance music - Strauss or disco - but many people take huge pleasure from it.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:58 am But that is "bad music". Surely you have so respect for your own opinions?

The point is that this is my opinion; it has no relevance or validity to anyone else. To say that the music I don't like is "bad" music is a grotesque act of egocentric deception. It would be me trying to say that my personal judgements carry sufficient authority that they are applicable to all. A personal opinion is just that, and it should be presented as such, and not misrepresented as a universal truth, which it is not.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 10:27 am Another measure one could use:

1) All musicians are musicians because they failed at sports, ie. inferior athletic prowess.
2) Music is for weak people by weak people.
3) All musicians, and people who listen to their 'product', should be hung from a fence poll by their boxers.

I've run into some people who at least have 'some' version of this so I'm not really making it up off the cuff.

Is it valid though?

No, I think it's just an attempt to pass off an opinion as something more authoritative, as described in my previous post. Invalid reasoning.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 11:40 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am I don't like dance music - Strauss or disco - but many people take huge pleasure from it.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:58 am But that is "bad music". Surely you have so respect for your own opinions?

The point is that this is my opinion; it has no relevance or validity to anyone else. To say that the music I don't like is "bad" music is a grotesque act of egocentric deception. It would be me trying to say that my personal judgements carry sufficient authority that they are applicable to all. A personal opinion is just that, and it should be presented as such, and not misrepresented as a universal truth, which it is not.

Here's a question.
Is all sound music?
Is all sound made by humans music?
Are there any criteria by which you determine what is and what is not music?

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Here's a question.
Is all sound music?
Is all sound made by humans music?
Are there any criteria by which you determine what is and what is not music?

As I said:

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am

• There is no "good" music and no "bad" music; there is only music.
• Music is whatever is presented as music.
• There is music that you (i.e. anyone who cares to listen) like, and music that you don't. This is the only context in which our value judgements belong: I like it or I don't like it.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:30 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Here's a question.
Is all sound music?
Is all sound made by humans music?
Are there any criteria by which you determine what is and what is not music?

As I said:

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:38 am

• There is no "good" music and no "bad" music; there is only music.
• Music is whatever is presented as music.
• There is music that you (i.e. anyone who cares to listen) like, and music that you don't. This is the only context in which our value judgements belong: I like it or I don't like it.

Why are you avoiding the questions?
If what you had already said above were an answer to those questions, I would not have asked them.
The fact is that people have different standards. For me noise generated by an emotionless machine by a sixth former in two minutes does not qualify. I have no interest in that.
I appreciate people who take the trouble to understand musical theory and spend time learning to play instruments. I also appreciate peope with raw talent and a great singing voice.
I mention Amy Winehouse above for example.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:50 am

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:37 am Nope. You are still wrong.
There is the waste basket and all **** music goes in it there, whether it is 200 years old, or made by talentless morons.

Here's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

John Grant
Amy Winehouse
West–Eastern Divan Orchestra
Portishead
Radiohead
let me add...
Steam Powered Giraffe

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm The fact is that people have different standards. For me noise generated by an emotionless machine by a sixth former in two minutes does not qualify.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASC_(musician)

Not listed - he's been doing sound-scoring for television, movies, and advertising over the last ten years.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 7:18 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 10:59 pm I like what Robert Wyatt did with Softs, especially his drumming before the accident, but his solo work does not do it for me.

Just a quick aside to this conversation, that seems to be reaching its natural end: do you like Matching Mole? In between being ejected from the band he formed, and breaking his back, Robert Wyatt formed Matching Mole, a pun on the French Machine Molle ("Soft Machine"). Another fine little band, IMO.

Somehow I missed them all these years. Just listening now, seems like something that will take a few listens to understand. Reminds me of Hatfield and the North. Quite a rhythm section. The bass playing by Bill McCormack is bizarre :) I know of him from Quiet Sun and 801.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:50 amHere's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:50 am

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 9:37 am Nope. You are still wrong.
There is the waste basket and all **** music goes in it there, whether it is 200 years old, or made by talentless morons.

Here's one. Can you name five bands, formed after 1990, that you have respect for?

No. Only one.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm The fact is that people have different standards. For me noise generated by an emotionless machine by a sixth former in two minutes does not qualify.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASC_(musician)

Not listed - he's been doing sound-scoring for television, movies, and advertising over the last ten years.

If that is the case then either the TV are programmes I would never watch, or he has left his skill set behind when he made the example you posted, or both.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm The fact is that people have different standards. For me noise generated by an emotionless machine by a sixth former in two minutes does not qualify.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASC_(musician)

Not listed - he's been doing sound-scoring for television, movies, and advertising over the last ten years.

You have offered no evidence for scoring, but only a list of probably self published "albums" of similar noise.

Papus79 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 3:50 pm The fact is that people have different standards. For me noise generated by an emotionless machine by a sixth former in two minutes does not qualify.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASC_(musician)

Not listed - he's been doing sound-scoring for television, movies, and advertising over the last ten years.

All this stuff has been done to death by Tangerine Dream and others.