Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 7:27 am
Is there nothing you consider as objectively true?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:00 am
That Objective Reality exists, and I am all or part of it. Nothing more than this can be (Objectively) known by any human being.
This illustrates why Objectivity is so useless. It's an academic fantasy. Sure, we can conceive of 'that which actually is', as a theoretical concept. But we can't perceive it; we have no direct access to it. Even though we live in it. So all of our thoughts about what might be Objectively true are just idle fantasies; intellectual masturbation. We have that one Objective fact that we can rely on; all else is wishful thinking.
That how life is for us humans. It's not the best we could've hoped for, but it's what we have. And so uncertainty is a central issue in our thinking, or it should be. If it isn't, we might fall victim to the common fallacy of believing our own opinions are founded and reliable. They aren't.
Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:13 am
So you consider it objectively true that an objective reality exists?
Yes.
Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:13 am
That's an opinion.
Ah, but that's the thing about Objectivity. Opinions aren't be Objective (except by accident or coincidence).
Via Descartes'
Cogito, each one of us is able to determine that
something exists Objectively. And if
something exists (Objectively), then Objective Reality exists, and that
something is all or part of it. I can follow this chain of reasoning. I cannot transfer my knowledge of its 'Objectivity' to you ... but if you follow the same chain of reasoning yourself, you will also be able to verify (Objectively) the existence of Objective Reality.
N.B. Objective Reality is
that which actually is, independent of the wishes, beliefs, or opinions of any entity.
Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:13 am
And opinions are subject bound. It's your idea of an objective reality. And that objective reality can't be known, according to your conception of it.
It is incorrect to refer to "
an objective reality". There can be only one, as they say. There is only one Objective Reality.
The only piece of Objective knowledge that a human can knowingly possess is that Objective Reality exists. All else is speculation that does not and can not meet the standards of Objectivity. So yes, you are right to say that no detail, property, or aspect of Objective Reality can be known to a human, save only the fact of its existence.
And this, as you clearly see, is the downfall of Objectivity; the thing that makes it a complete waste of time. For even if we speculate about it, our speculations cannot meet any Objective standard, so they have no Objective validity. All this stuff about Objectivity is childishly easy to understand, but in the end it describes something that is, and will always be, inaccessible to humans. So whatever we say about it is merely opinion, an opinion that is not supported, or even affected, by a claim that it is "Objective". For any such claim is automatically incorrect. It can be nothing else, when it is absolutely and completely impossible for a human being to confirm the Objective correctness of anything at all.
And all that is why, so many posts ago, I challenged your use of the term "objective". The term has no use at all, except to confuse and mislead those with whom you are trying to communicate, if that should be your intent.
Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:13 am
I don't think this opinion is very fruitful. If you think all our conceptions of reality are just conceptions than the idea of an objective reality becomes meaningless. I think everybody's or every group's objective reality are equally real. What would my objective reality matter if it was just an opinion?
That's pretty much it. Except that I might've said "I think everybody's or every group's '
objective reality' are equally
unreal, just as they are wholly unfounded, unsubstantiated and so forth."