Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Jan Sand]

Is

There is neither love nor hate
Enmity nor impotence
In the guts of this exploding continuum.
Fire and frost do not gain or lose.
In strains of melodies that sing of everything.
The heaving of the heavens does not plan
In exercise for the fate of man in demise
Or conquests of eternity.
It is in our hands and minds to bind
Or dissolve our beginnings
Or our ends.
We can stand and wait
For a chaotic fate
To spin and twist
Whether we maintain, exist,
Or vanish in a flare of despair.
It is up to us to care.
It’s up to us to provide.
There’s no place to run.
There’s no place to hide.

[Hereandnow]

This poem is why I read philosophy and not literature (which I taught once). Literature opens gateways to the power of what lies before us, but has no means measure its value. It is observational in that it takes the human world and throws its tragedies in to sharp relief, as tells us look, bear witness. And falls silent.

The last novel I read was Death in the Family, by James Agee from which his Knoxville, Summer 1915 was taken up by Samuel Barber in music. The piece is here, if you care to listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTR3oCCek74

The novel is about the lives of those in bound in their lives and feelings to tragedy. What I like about this novel is, as Agee intended, the absurd juxtaposition of our familiar lives and the profundity we face in the would we are born into. The novel, and the Barber work, throw this into high relief. That is what a good tragic novel should do: it is not the tragedy as such, it is the way the routine everydayness of things collide with the depth of our boundness to everything. We are suddenly out of our element. Philosophy begins here.

[Jan Sand]

Whatever the quality of my comment may be insofar as poetry is concerned, I cannot say, bu it was made as a statement for its philosophical implication. If the urgency of current human status is not recognized to a level far greater than current activity is demonstrated to promote proper dynamic reaction, then the mounting disaster which will destroy us all in the very near future cannot be avoided.

[Jan Sand]

This morning the New York Times published the obituary of an artist named Mary Pratt, a Canadian artist devoted to exquisite detail of ordinary household scenes. ( https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/obit ... ctionfront ) Her technical and observational skills immensely demonstrate an area of painting I cannot remotely approach but my own rather sloppy primitive efforts originate in explorations of other quite different areas in art and I bring this up to point out that the various disciplines of the field may produce cosmologically different ways to encounter the nature of being live where each brings to light different and delightful aspects without depreciating any of them.

[Hereandnow]

Jan Sand
Whatever the quality of my comment may be insofar as poetry is concerned, I cannot say, bu it was made as a statement for its philosophical implication. If the urgency of current human status is not recognized to a level far greater than current activity is demonstrated to promote proper dynamic reaction, then the mounting disaster which will destroy us all in the very near future cannot be avoided.

That is one way to look at it, and I find interpretative leanings go toward consequences and long run scenarios. My interests go to "the urgency of the current human status". I take this urgency at the level of the real, within the experience of actual livings beings and not so much the abstraction of political crises (which I presume you have in mind with "the mounting disaster which will destroy us all").

But then, there is a crisis looming, a Malthusian crisis, a crisis of inflated nationalism, a crisis of fear and loathing, and so on.

[Jan Sand]

I sort of congratulate you in a negative way as being one member of a select group who is unaware pf the problems of meteorology and nuclear hair triggers. Perhaps it is rather comforting to be that way.

[Hereandnow]

That doesn't really follow at all.

[Jan Sand]

I see. I never considered I would encounter an admirer of the current US administration at this site.

[Burning ghost]

Jan Sand -

Your true concern in attempting to convey what you feel is very important and is very impressive and I am grateful for your effort. My own concerns are seated in my concept, not as a human, since, even as a child I felt as a stranger in a strange land although I spent my first 35 years as a New Yorker, I have lived in Paris, West Berlin, Oak Ridge Tennessee, Tel Aviv, and ended here in Helsinki. I have never felt at home anywhere and I have never identified with what is called humanity. And, more basically. I never found anything more attractive in being a mature human better than being a four year old child.

How about appreciation of once being a four year old? Surely that is not something you had when you were four.

Sad story. I only hope you’re exaggerating for dramatic effect.

[Jan Sand]

Although I have distinct memories as a two year old and retain flash memories of the time before I could walk I have no idea as to how old I was for my initial memories. I have a distinct memory of sitting down to a meal at four years old and saying to myself that I will remember that instant most definitely and I have. Nevertheless I was well aware at that time that much of the world and humanity was a total mystery. The succeeding 88 years have filled in my understandings to a large degree to a huge disappointment as to the discovery of the general nature of humanity and how irresponsibly my species has responded to its responsibilities to the planet and to each other. I couldn't possibly over dramatize my disappointments in that discovery. Since I am well past the age when there isn't much future for me even with the best of expectations I cannot get emotionally upset over my final years whatever they may present so there is nothing to be sad about. I have probably lived through the most interesting times of my species and, like anyone of my age I am grateful to be of good health and reasonable agility and each moment that remains is a gift I most appreciate.

[Burning ghost]

You have my condolences. My life seems to be getting better overall and I certainly don’t pine for my four year old self.

Humanity will always face problems. We’re not doing terribly badly at all. The environment is an issue, but the youth is MUCH more aware of the problem due to how education has been flooded with concerns for global warming and such. The generations coming through right now are getting to it.

Don’t worry about the planet it’ll go on regardless of us hummies (and not feeling like you’re part of humanity is ikely the most distinct sign that you are.)

[ThomasHobbes]

You have my condolences. My life seems to be getting better overall and I certainly don’t pine for my four year old self.

Humanity will always face problems. We’re not doing terribly badly at all.

There is more genuine human suffering now than at any time in history.

[Jan Sand]

This is the current delusion denying the huge catastrophe that is well on its way. It's not up to me to convince anybody but there is already a loss of many millions of dollars from the slight sea rise ( https://slashdot.org/story/18/08/26/215 ... -disappear ) and when the permafrost melts in Northern Canada and Siberia the methane which is already furiously bubbling up will flip the atmosphere into a hot oven to liquefy polar and Greenland ice to submerge New York along with many coastal cities. The rioting against billions of refugees world wide has a good chance of destroying everything along with the possibilities of nuclear disasters. Already many nuclear energy plants had to shut down this summer for a while since the cooling water was too hot to cool the reactors and this is only the bare start of real problems. In about five years countries in the torrid zones have a good chance of becoming uninhabitable and there are lots of heat deaths even now. None of the nations of the world are responding quickly and strongly enough to stop this or even slow it down. And, like you, most of the world does almost nothing or even takes it seriously. It looks pretty hopeless.

[ThomasHobbes]

Sorry, but this 'god' term you use is too ambiguous to understand. What do you mean by it, or, what is it that Wikipedia means, that you in turn mean?

Looks like we have a bit of thread bleed.
There are many "God" threads, this is ART!

[Jan Sand]

Of course, the situation should indicate that a good deal of current art should be made waterproof.