Philosophy Discussion Forums

Joshua10 wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:16 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2023, 2:47 am If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God takes all responsibility. The God myth posits that God knows everything can do anything, so all of the suffering of all sentient beings is as God planned.

Or maybe God is inclined to blame the cosmic version of Dominion for his shortfalls?

How can you blame a God which you claim doesn’t exist?

What your philosophy is saying that you (along with all humankind) takes full responsibility for all the atrocities throughout history whilst at the same time REJECTING a God that might exist.

A God would need to exist before you can blame that God and that defeats the atheist’s objective.

From your logic you have to accept a God has done nothing wrong or accept that he exists.

It would appear that a God,that might exist is one step ahead of you.

It certainly helps to read posts before replying.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:19 am

Joshua10 wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:16 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2023, 2:47 am If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God takes all responsibility. The God myth posits that God knows everything can do anything, so all of the suffering of all sentient beings is as God planned.

Or maybe God is inclined to blame the cosmic version of Dominion for his shortfalls?

How can you blame a God which you claim doesn’t exist?

What your philosophy is saying that you (along with all humankind) takes full responsibility for all the atrocities throughout history whilst at the same time REJECTING a God that might exist.

A God would need to exist before you can blame that God and that defeats the atheist’s objective.

From your logic you have to accept a God has done nothing wrong or accept that he exists.

It would appear that a God,that might exist is one step ahead of you.

It certainly helps to read posts before replying.

I read the post.

I despise the idea of worshiping an all powerful deity that could, if it wanted to do so, have let all babies be born without horrible and painful deformities.

Belindi wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 5:54 am I despise the idea of worshiping an all powerful deity that could, if it wanted to do so, have let all babies be born without horrible and painful deformities.

So humankind is responsible for all atrocities that have ever been carried out throughout history and freely admits this and might also be responsible for why all babies are born with horrible and painful deformities.

Joshua10 wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:24 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:19 am

Joshua10 wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 3:16 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2023, 2:47 am If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God takes all responsibility. The God myth posits that God knows everything can do anything, so all of the suffering of all sentient beings is as God planned.

Or maybe God is inclined to blame the cosmic version of Dominion for his shortfalls?

How can you blame a God which you claim doesn’t exist?

What your philosophy is saying that you (along with all humankind) takes full responsibility for all the atrocities throughout history whilst at the same time REJECTING a God that might exist.

A God would need to exist before you can blame that God and that defeats the atheist’s objective.

From your logic you have to accept a God has done nothing wrong or accept that he exists.

It would appear that a God,that might exist is one step ahead of you.

It certainly helps to read posts before replying.

I read the post.

Then you missed my point completely. Do you see the word "if" that prefaces my statement. Do you know what the word "if" means?

if
conjunction
in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that:

If you cannot understand conditionals and qualifiers, then you will continue to be out of your depth on this forum, or any philosophy forum.

All anyone has is HOPE Sy Borg because nobody can provide definitive PROOF, therefore philosophy and science has to allow for this.Nature has a very clever way of applying this principle across the UNITED sciences

My philosophy and science allows for hope logic and therefore always makes perfect sense.

Modern day philosophy and science on the other hand assumes things as fact that it can’t prove and takes these assumptions into it’s science and even applies them mathematically to it theories.

This is why modern day sciences foundational theories have failed because it isn’t playing by the rules.

It’s inventing its own rules.

Belindi wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 5:54 am I despise the idea of worshiping an all powerful deity that could, if it wanted to do so, have let all babies be born without horrible and painful deformities.

Not to worry, as it happens the majority of gods aren't omnipotent, so can't make all babies perfectly formed.

LuckyR wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 2:11 am

Belindi wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 5:54 am I despise the idea of worshiping an all powerful deity that could, if it wanted to do so, have let all babies be born without horrible and painful deformities.

Not to worry, as it happens the majority of gods aren't omnipotent, so can't make all babies perfectly formed.

In all known societies ,when the ruling class establishes a god or gods then that god or these gods are to be worthshipped as all powerful forces. You, Lucky, are American and have no state-established religion. In England the Church of England is benign enough but it gives lip service to omnipotence, and should be disastablished in the name of democracy.

If God exists, it seems to me that he is absolved from the atrocities committed by people, because we have autonomy. I would say free will, but I don’t want to start a splinter debate. But for the things that people don’t have control over, such as natural disasters etc., we can attribute blame (or responsibility) to him. I don’t believe that because bad things happen in life that means God would be evil because good things happen as well.

If we are to attribute blame to God for what is considered evil, we must also (in reasonableness) attribute to him what is good. An omnipotent being has the power to stop evil from happening, but if such a being were good or benign – it is puzzling as to why they do not do so. As a human being with limited knowledge, it is impossible to draw absolute conclusions as to why a purported omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being does the things that they do. Therefore, ultimately, I think it would be illogical to blame God or claim that he has done things wrong in an absolute and not theoretical sense.

Fanman wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 3:11 pm If God exists, it seems to me that he is absolved from the atrocities committed by people, because we have autonomy.

Mafia Dons are seldom found guilty for the crimes their people commit on their behalf.

That makes God like a dry cleaner service - We Take All Care, But No Responsibility.

If God is omniscient, then it knows what autonomous humans will do, so there is no logical absolution.

More logically, if God exists, it is not omniscient, and nor is it omnipotent or - let's face it - even remotely akin to deeply anthropocentric Biblical descriptions.

Belindi wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 6:07 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 2:11 am

Belindi wrote: ↑May 13th, 2023, 5:54 am I despise the idea of worshiping an all powerful deity that could, if it wanted to do so, have let all babies be born without horrible and painful deformities.

Not to worry, as it happens the majority of gods aren't omnipotent, so can't make all babies perfectly formed.

In all known societies ,when the ruling class establishes a god or gods then that god or these gods are to be worthshipped as all powerful forces. You, Lucky, are American and have no state-established religion. In England the Church of England is benign enough but it gives lip service to omnipotence, and should be disastablished in the name of democracy.

Yes, when monotheistic religions came into vogue, they did tend to gravitate towards omnipotence. Something that the polytheistic and dualist religions logically avoided, though they have other problems.

Fanman wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 3:11 pm If God exists, it seems to me that he is absolved from the atrocities committed by people, because we have autonomy. I would say free will, but I don’t want to start a splinter debate. But for the things that people don’t have control over, such as natural disasters etc., we can attribute blame (or responsibility) to him. I don’t believe that because bad things happen in life that means God would be evil because good things happen as well.

If we are to attribute blame to God for what is considered evil, we must also (in reasonableness) attribute to him what is good. An omnipotent being has the power to stop evil from happening, but if such a being were good or benign – it is puzzling as to why they do not do so. As a human being with limited knowledge, it is impossible to draw absolute conclusions as to why a purported omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being does the things that they do. Therefore, ultimately, I think it would be illogical to blame God or claim that he has done things wrong in an absolute and not theoretical sense.

Alas, one cannot reconcile godly absolute goodness and omnipotence with the world as it is. Something's gotta give. An omnipotent evil god would be possible, but no one seems interested in that.

Philosophically, I believe the point is being completely missed here.

I repeat,

Humankind has to accept full responsibility for absolutely every single atrocity and bad event that has ever happened throughout history or will ever happen in future history at exactly the same time as rejecting a possible GOD that might exist, simply because the individual cannot definitively prove that a possible God doesn't exist.

You can't blame a rejected God that doesn't exist.

Philosophically and ultimately, it has never been a case of believing or not believing in a God because belief or non belief has never been of any use to anyone at all.

It has always been a case of accepting or rejecting a possible God that might exist.

LuckyR wrote: ↑May 15th, 2023, 3:06 am

Fanman wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 3:11 pm If God exists, it seems to me that he is absolved from the atrocities committed by people, because we have autonomy. I would say free will, but I don’t want to start a splinter debate. But for the things that people don’t have control over, such as natural disasters etc., we can attribute blame (or responsibility) to him. I don’t believe that because bad things happen in life that means God would be evil because good things happen as well.

If we are to attribute blame to God for what is considered evil, we must also (in reasonableness) attribute to him what is good. An omnipotent being has the power to stop evil from happening, but if such a being were good or benign – it is puzzling as to why they do not do so. As a human being with limited knowledge, it is impossible to draw absolute conclusions as to why a purported omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent being does the things that they do. Therefore, ultimately, I think it would be illogical to blame God or claim that he has done things wrong in an absolute and not theoretical sense.

Alas, one cannot reconcile godly absolute goodness and omnipotence with the world as it is. Something's gotta give. An omnipotent evil god would be possible, but no one seems interested in that.

God is a subjective phenomenon, existing as the part of the brain that was shaped by the mystical beliefs of our ancestors over many generations. Meanwhile, good and evil are obviously subjective. Thus, God is only apparently omnipresent and omniscient; God knows our minds because it IS our minds.

Thus, the question about what "God has actually done wrong" measures two subjective concepts against each other. The result, unsurprisingly is deeply subjective.

Most theists on the forum look for God outside of themselves as well as within, as if God was an incorporeal magic man. In doing so, they ironically travel ever further from the actual subjective God and into rank superstition that posits physics-breaking miracles. That is, unless Star Trek was right, where advanced aliens had visited Earth in antiquity and posed as deities because they found that being worshipped was an ego rush :)

What you have to remember is that God hasn't done anything wrong at all because humankind has accepted full responsibility for all the atrocities and bad things that have happened throughout history and will happen in the future having rejected a God that may or may not exist. Humankind accepts this because it knows that the alternative is to accept that a God does exist in order to be able to blame and reject him, which would mean the atheist becomes a theist.