Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Pattern-chaser]

I've seen KC play Red at least once (I don't remember all the set-lists), but I also saw (The) Fripp, Vai and Satriani play Red at a G3 gig, which was pretty awesome.

Satriani never did it for me. Obviously very skilled, but I prefer guitarists with more dynamic and tonal variation like Jeff Beck, Jan Akkerman, Daryl Steurmer and Uncle Frank, fusion players like John McLaughlin and Larry Coryell, or very soulful players like BB King and David Gilmour. That loud shredding with a glossy tone sounds amazing, but gets old for me after a minute or so.

Satriani was my least favourite of the three; I went to see The Fripp and Steve Vai, if I'm honest. ...and they were truly amazing, both of them.

[Sy Borg]

I've seen KC play Red at least once (I don't remember all the set-lists), but I also saw (The) Fripp, Vai and Satriani play Red at a G3 gig, which was pretty awesome. 🙂

Satriani never did it for me. Obviously very skilled, but I prefer guitarists with more dynamic and tonal variation like Jeff Beck, Jan Akkerman, Daryl Steurmer and Uncle Frank, fusion players like John McLaughlin and Larry Coryell, or very soulful players like BB King and David Gilmour. That loud shredding with a glossy tone sounds amazing, but gets old for me after a minute or so.

Satriani was my least favourite of the three; I went to see The Fripp and Steve Vai, if I'm honest. 🙂 ...and they were truly amazing, both of them. 🙂

I can relate to that. Last gig I saw was John McLaughlin's 4th Dimension a couple of years ago. I was disappointed. Much fireworks and shredding - the music sounded less inspired and beautiful than his One Truth Band, whom I saw in the 80s. Too many notes and not enough space to let those notes breathe.

[Pattern-chaser]

Too many notes and not enough space to let those notes breathe.

Yes, do you remember our reactions when the Mahavishnu Orchestra appeared? More notes (and drum-beats) per nanosecond than we'd ever seen or heard!

[Pattern-chaser]

"True musical virtuosos are minimalists who put roll before rock"

[Pattern-chaser]

Nowhere in the definition of ‘virtuoso’ is it written that you have to play a lot of notes.

[Sy Borg]

Too many notes and not enough space to let those notes breathe.

Yes, do you remember our reactions when the Mahavishnu Orchestra appeared? More notes (and drum-beats) per nanosecond than we'd ever seen or heard! 😮🎸🥁🙂

In the mid-70s, shredding was all the rage. Musicians were stretching their virtuosity and listeners were eager to be challenged. But that kind of over-the-top noisiness will tend not to please the ears of old biddies in the 2010s.

[Pattern-chaser]

Last gig I saw was John McLaughlin's 4th Dimension a couple of years ago. I was disappointed. Much fireworks and shredding - the music sounded less inspired and beautiful than his One Truth Band, whom I saw in the 80s. Too many notes and not enough space to let those notes breathe.

IMO, McLaughlin's best work was with Shakti. More musical; less technical prowess.

[Sy Borg]

Last gig I saw was John McLaughlin's 4th Dimension a couple of years ago. I was disappointed. Much fireworks and shredding - the music sounded less inspired and beautiful than his One Truth Band, whom I saw in the 80s. Too many notes and not enough space to let those notes breathe.

IMO, McLaughlin's best work was with Shakti. More musical; less technical prowess.

I hear that album as ultra technical, with his sitar and tabla mates shredding their heads off. But that has always been my reservation with JM. His talent is off the charts, and it especially shines through when he eases back to, say, 480 notes per minute or fewer ;)

[Papus79]

[Count Lucanor]

Nowhere in the definition of ‘virtuoso’ is it written that you have to play a lot of notes.

Most of the time, the presence of a lot or fewer notes has more to do with the composer than with the player. And there's never talk of a virtuoso composer, rather of a composer for virtuosos. If one can play such music, one can surely be included among virtuosos.

To play more notes, as well as generating some particular difficult effects in an instrument, is generally considered technically challenging and associated with musical virtuosity. I don't see why you could not have one without the other, I mean: few notes, but advanced musical chops. These types of challenges are obviously not the only ones a musician can face and also there are for all tastes.

[Papus79]

[Papus79]

[Papus79]

For those who like Epitaph by King Crimson, I'm curious on what you think of this Massive Attack tune. I get something similar, albeit MA is being a bit more explicit about EU neoliberalism:

[Sy Borg]

The lyrics of KC's Epitaph were the usual anti-war sentiments of the late 60s.

For me, the beauty of Epitaph is not in the doomy lyrics but the epic nature of music. Crimson was always more about creating moods and the visceral experience of sound than the lyrics, which ranged from interesting and clever to naive and gross.

To me, a closer relative of Epitaph is Bjork's Play Dead - powerful and beautiful.

[Papus79]

Another reason I'd follow Goldie's work at any bpm. With him and Natalie making the distinction between love song and religious experience on audio can be tricky. Only other artists who hit this angle as often and as well these days IMHO is Submotion Orchestra.