Philosophy Discussion Forums

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:03 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 3:47 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 12:35 pm Human kind is responsible for all the atrocities that have ever happened and will ever happen throughout history.The lot.God has to exist before you can blame him for anything.

So no animals predated on humans in harsh, painful ways?
So no microbes made humans suffer and die?
So no volcanoes, earthquakes, storms, floods or droughts wreaked havoc on communities?
So humans are never born with terrible, painful disabilities and deformities?
So there were no asteroids that killed and destroyed most complex life on Earth.

I see this same mistake on the forum, again and again, simply forgetting about all the other life on Earth, and the planet itself, as if none of it made a difference. In truth, we are part of the Earth and the system in which it resides, and subject to those dynamics - far, far, more powerful than humans. The ancients had this idea to call all these powers that were greater than humans and call them either God or Satan.

Like Narcissus, much of humanity has become transfixed by seeing its own reflection in natural forces, which was then named "God". Now we have an all-powerful universal being created in Man's image.

Ok,humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that human kind is responsible for other than animals and natural causes.Every single one past and every single on in the future.The atrocities that humankind would like to blame God for, if he exists.

Of course,God might exist, so human kind can have a go pinning the blame on God.

After all, you can’t blame God if he doesn’t exist.

I don't blame anyone or anything. Stuff happens. That's life. Pick your cliché. If I was inclined to blame, I wouldn't blame God any more than I blame Zeus or Shiva.

The entire schema (at this stage) is brutal. If you are not an autotroph, then you must kill, steal from or hustle other beings to survive. Day after day - killing, slaughtering, eating and excreting. Then we die and others rise from the energy of our remains.

The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient and indefinitely good being that created all of this is absurd on every level. Still, theists can always rely on Her "mysterious ways".

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:31 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:03 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 3:47 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 12:35 pm Human kind is responsible for all the atrocities that have ever happened and will ever happen throughout history.The lot.God has to exist before you can blame him for anything.

So no animals predated on humans in harsh, painful ways?
So no microbes made humans suffer and die?
So no volcanoes, earthquakes, storms, floods or droughts wreaked havoc on communities?
So humans are never born with terrible, painful disabilities and deformities?
So there were no asteroids that killed and destroyed most complex life on Earth.

I see this same mistake on the forum, again and again, simply forgetting about all the other life on Earth, and the planet itself, as if none of it made a difference. In truth, we are part of the Earth and the system in which it resides, and subject to those dynamics - far, far, more powerful than humans. The ancients had this idea to call all these powers that were greater than humans and call them either God or Satan.

Like Narcissus, much of humanity has become transfixed by seeing its own reflection in natural forces, which was then named "God". Now we have an all-powerful universal being created in Man's image.

Ok,humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that human kind is responsible for other than animals and natural causes.Every single one past and every single on in the future.The atrocities that humankind would like to blame God for, if he exists.

Of course,God might exist, so human kind can have a go pinning the blame on God.

After all, you can’t blame God if he doesn’t exist.

I don't blame anyone or anything. Stuff happens. That's life. Pick your cliché. If I was inclined to blame, I wouldn't blame God any more than I blame Zeus or Shiva.

The entire schema (at this stage) is brutal. If you are not an autotroph, then you must kill, steal from or hustle other beings to survive. Day after day - killing, slaughtering, eating and excreting. Then we die and others rise from the energy of our remains.

The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient and indefinitely good being that created all of this is absurd on every level. Still, theists can always rely on Her "mysterious ways".

So you do agree then that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for whether that be in the past or in the future.

You also say that you don’t blame anyone or anything ….apart from God,it would appear,if he exists.

I thought you weren’t blaming anyone or anything,freely admitting that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for?

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:49 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:31 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:03 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 3:47 pm

So no animals predated on humans in harsh, painful ways?
So no microbes made humans suffer and die?
So no volcanoes, earthquakes, storms, floods or droughts wreaked havoc on communities?
So humans are never born with terrible, painful disabilities and deformities?
So there were no asteroids that killed and destroyed most complex life on Earth.

I see this same mistake on the forum, again and again, simply forgetting about all the other life on Earth, and the planet itself, as if none of it made a difference. In truth, we are part of the Earth and the system in which it resides, and subject to those dynamics - far, far, more powerful than humans. The ancients had this idea to call all these powers that were greater than humans and call them either God or Satan.

Like Narcissus, much of humanity has become transfixed by seeing its own reflection in natural forces, which was then named "God". Now we have an all-powerful universal being created in Man's image.

Ok,humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that human kind is responsible for other than animals and natural causes.Every single one past and every single on in the future.The atrocities that humankind would like to blame God for, if he exists.

Of course,God might exist, so human kind can have a go pinning the blame on God.

After all, you can’t blame God if he doesn’t exist.

I don't blame anyone or anything. Stuff happens. That's life. Pick your cliché. If I was inclined to blame, I wouldn't blame God any more than I blame Zeus or Shiva.

The entire schema (at this stage) is brutal. If you are not an autotroph, then you must kill, steal from or hustle other beings to survive. Day after day - killing, slaughtering, eating and excreting. Then we die and others rise from the energy of our remains.

The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient and indefinitely good being that created all of this is absurd on every level. Still, theists can always rely on Her "mysterious ways".

So you do agree then that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for whether that be in the past or in the future.

You also say that you don’t blame anyone or anything ….apart from God,it would appear,if he exists.

I thought you weren’t blaming anyone or anything,freely admitting that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for?

No, I accept that life is often harsh. What's to blame? We're all in more or less the same boat, both human and non-human animals. In the end, I think that life is an immature form of whatever will come after.

I don't blame God for any of this this because God exists only subjectively, within people's noggins, usually adherents to Abrahamic faiths, although some Buddhists also believe.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 7:20 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:49 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:31 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2023, 4:03 pm

Ok,humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that human kind is responsible for other than animals and natural causes.Every single one past and every single on in the future.The atrocities that humankind would like to blame God for.

Of course,God might exist, so human kind can have a go pinning the blame on God.

After all, you can’t blame God if he doesn’t exist.

I don't blame anyone or anything. Stuff happens. That's life. Pick your cliché. If I was inclined to blame, I wouldn't blame God any more than I blame Zeus or Shiva.

The entire schema (at this stage) is brutal. If you are not an autotroph, then you must kill, steal from or hustle other beings to survive. Day after day - killing, slaughtering, eating and excreting. Then we die and others rise from the energy of our remains.

The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient and indefinitely good being that created all of this is absurd on every level. Still, theists can always rely on Her "mysterious ways".

So you do agree then that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for whether that be in the past or in the future.

You also say that you don’t blame anyone or anything ….apart from God,it would appear,if he exists.

I thought you weren’t blaming anyone or anything,freely admitting that humankind is responsible for all the atrocities that humankind is responsible for?

No, I accept that life is often harsh. What's to blame? We're all in more or less the same boat, both human and non-human animals. In the end, I think that life is an immature form of whatever will come after.

I don't blame God for any of this this because God exists only subjectively, within people's noggins, usually adherents to Abrahamic faiths, although some Buddhists also believe.

You do a lot of assuming.

You don’t have to define equal but opposites.You just need to know that neither can be cancelled out.

They have been separated.

Sorry CAN’T prove

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 18th, 2023, 12:24 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑April 17th, 2023, 5:57 pm

Joshua10 wrote: ↑April 17th, 2023, 2:06 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2022, 2:05 pm If god is all powerful why cant he offer clean water to save the lives of children?

An estimated 289,000 children under five die each year of diarrhoeal diseases directly caused by dirty water,.

Why can’t man?

Take the supernatural garbage out, and man can move mountains.

We have always created our Gods, but nothing has hurt that seeking of the unknown more than supernatural belief.

The ancients had fewer left/right problems, because they were brighter than the right wing supernatural thinkers, whom the brighter naturalists have always outnumbered, within all religions.

Stats are changing perceptions.

Regards
DL

You reason that it is supernatural garbage because you exist but don’t exist in dualistic (double mindedness).

You are unable to be still

Useless and meaningless language.

Duality is not the same as double mindedness and you must think your last to be really impressive, even as it says nothing.

Regards
DL



Regards
DL

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 am So many debates gravitate around the degrading of the Lord. In our attempts to disprove him or discredit him, we find some satisfaction. These questions and accusations bring us to a new question, what has he actually done wrong?

When we look at an imperfect world and all the pain and sorrow that goes along with it; we often say then he cannot exist. Looking at the story of Adam and Eve, we find why our world is broken. If we go from that story, we find that things were perfect, but that we were not satisfied enough with it. Somehow, we managed to not only doom that perfection, but also put continuity in it. In a world that is doomed, should it not be strange when something goes right, rather when something goes wrong?

Mainly, the Bible tells us how to live our lives right. It is concerned with our safety and protection and seemingly, that is what the crux of the book is. Despite this good intention, (of a book that is looking out for us), we are so unsatisfied with the Lord and the book, that we find it necessary to degrade and attack both. Why do we reward good intentions with anger and disbelief?

Reading the Word correctly is what is important. History is not instruction, but rather like drama, which we can choose not to adopt in our lives; yet people see everything in it as instruction, rather than life lessons to learn. They take the worse things out of context, rather choosing to focus on the story and so losing the message.

So the question in this thread is, what has the Lord actually done wrong, since his main goal was always to keep us safe. He is practical in all things, there does not seem to be anything abstract when it comes to sin, but we can always rather find some logical explanation why any sin is “wrong.” “Sin” and “wrong,” seem to be outdated words, which need reforming in order to demonstrate its practical value. So again, what has the Lord actually done wrong?

If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness. If everyone was to do so, then the issues that have arisen over the years would not have occurred. However, Satan and his demons are always there to tempt people to stray from God. This is what the New Testament advised that the day will come when God will keep his followers safe and those who do not adhere to this will face judgement and will, essentially no longer exist.

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 5:57 pm If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness.

This is not true.
What people do is treat the Bible like a bowl of cherries seeking out the ripest ones; the rules that best fit our own personal imagination of what we want "righteousness" to be.
In doing so we reject the bits that we are not comfortable with, and leave those bits in the bowl.

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 6:31 pm

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 5:57 pm If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness.

This is not true.
What people do is treat the Bible like a bowl of cherries seeking out the ripest ones; the rules that best fit our own personal imagination of what we want "righteousness" to be.
In doing so we reject the bits that we are not comfortable with, and leave those bits in the bowl.

Those people are not living in righteousness. It's an all or nothing.
Jesus even said, "Treat others as you wish to be treated." If we did that alone, then there would be less evil in the world.

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 5:57 pm

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 am So many debates gravitate around the degrading of the Lord. In our attempts to disprove him or discredit him, we find some satisfaction. These questions and accusations bring us to a new question, what has he actually done wrong?

When we look at an imperfect world and all the pain and sorrow that goes along with it; we often say then he cannot exist. Looking at the story of Adam and Eve, we find why our world is broken. If we go from that story, we find that things were perfect, but that we were not satisfied enough with it. Somehow, we managed to not only doom that perfection, but also put continuity in it. In a world that is doomed, should it not be strange when something goes right, rather when something goes wrong?

Mainly, the Bible tells us how to live our lives right. It is concerned with our safety and protection and seemingly, that is what the crux of the book is. Despite this good intention, (of a book that is looking out for us), we are so unsatisfied with the Lord and the book, that we find it necessary to degrade and attack both. Why do we reward good intentions with anger and disbelief?

Reading the Word correctly is what is important. History is not instruction, but rather like drama, which we can choose not to adopt in our lives; yet people see everything in it as instruction, rather than life lessons to learn. They take the worse things out of context, rather choosing to focus on the story and so losing the message.

So the question in this thread is, what has the Lord actually done wrong, since his main goal was always to keep us safe. He is practical in all things, there does not seem to be anything abstract when it comes to sin, but we can always rather find some logical explanation why any sin is “wrong.” “Sin” and “wrong,” seem to be outdated words, which need reforming in order to demonstrate its practical value. So again, what has the Lord actually done wrong?

If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness. If everyone was to do so, then the issues that have arisen over the years would not have occurred. However, Satan and his demons are always there to tempt people to stray from God. This is what the New Testament advised that the day will come when God will keep his followers safe and those who do not adhere to this will face judgement and will, essentially no longer exist.

Every religion with written texts says the identical thing. Do what I say and pass the collection plate. Everyone deserves to make a living I suppose.

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 6:45 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 6:31 pm

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 5:57 pm If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness.

This is not true.
What people do is treat the Bible like a bowl of cherries seeking out the ripest ones; the rules that best fit our own personal imagination of what we want "righteousness" to be.
In doing so we reject the bits that we are not comfortable with, and leave those bits in the bowl.

Those people are not living in righteousness. It's an all or nothing.
Jesus even said, "Treat others as you wish to be treated." If we did that alone, then there would be less evil in the world.

Thank you for your wonderful cherry picked passage from the Bible.
If Jesus said it then it was second hand.
This is what is called the "Golden Rule". And the first recorded example is from Confucius. It is also present in the Mahabarata, and is also from ancient Egypt; Tamil; ancient Greece, and many other places.
Like all moral "rules" it is applied relatively and subjectively, and many contradictory "rules" can be found to suit the occasion.

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 6:45 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 6:31 pm

Mounce574 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2023, 5:57 pm If we follow the Bible like a guideline, he tells you how to live in righteousness.

This is not true.
What people do is treat the Bible like a bowl of cherries seeking out the ripest ones; the rules that best fit our own personal imagination of what we want "righteousness" to be.
In doing so we reject the bits that we are not comfortable with, and leave those bits in the bowl.

Those people are not living in righteousness. It's an all or nothing.
Jesus even said, "Treat others as you wish to be treated." If we did that alone, then there would be less evil in the world.

This is true, but you ignore how right wing Christianity is anti LGBTQ+ and are not at all righteous.

Less evil would include ridding ourselves of our more evil Gods like the genocidal Yahweh/Jesus combo.

Regards
DL

What about the question.What has the devil done wrong? Why does God have to take the blame for everything?

If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God takes all responsibility. The God myth posits that God knows everything can do anything, so all of the suffering of all sentient beings is as God planned.

Or maybe God is inclined to blame the cosmic version of Dominion for his shortfalls?

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2023, 2:47 am If God is omnipotent and omniscient then God takes all responsibility. The God myth posits that God knows everything can do anything, so all of the suffering of all sentient beings is as God planned.

Or maybe God is inclined to blame the cosmic version of Dominion for his shortfalls?

That argument is true of God as a person. Alternatively, God may be understood as an abstract concept of what the individual or the society takes to be the best quality that transcends time and place. The latter is an interpretation of God that can't be described in language or picture and any attempt to do so is idolatry.