Philosophy Discussion Forums

@amorphous

amorphos_ii wrote:BBC -

Additionally, data from the Office for National Statistics shows that in the year ending in March 2022 almost 800,000 females aged 16 and over reported that they were raped or sexually assaulted every year in the UK - that's about one in 30

That number will likely include people you know by-the-way.

A tiny proportion end up in successful prosecutions.

Rape is also often used as a weapon of war, and has been reported by both Israelis and Palestinians.

To say you would ''hate both sides forever'' is like saying you would hate all men forever, it punishes the group for the crimes of individuals. 'Collective punishment' is a justification for genocide. It also endlessly continues the cycle of violence.

Currently some people who have far, far more reason to hate than you are trying to find a peaceful way forward. This is good.

It's tragic that apparently it would only have taken some real pressure from Biden for this to have been on the cards months and thousands of deaths ago, but here we are.

Sadly again, we don't know if Trump will end up giving Israel the go ahead to commit further attrociries now he's squashed the ongoing annoyance to him, we have to wait and see. But a just peace is always the right goal.

BBC -

Additionally, data from the Office for National Statistics shows that in the year ending in March 2022 almost 800,000 females aged 16 and over reported that they were raped or sexually assaulted every year in the UK - that's about one in 30

That number will likely include people you know by-the-way.

A tiny proportion end up in successful prosecutions.

Rape is also often used as a weapon of war, and has been reported by both Israelis and Palestinians.

To say you would ''hate both sides forever'' is like saying you would hate all men forever, it punishes the group for the crimes of individuals. 'Collective punishment' is a justification for genocide. It also endlessly continues the cycle of violence.

Currently some people who have far, far more reason to hate than you are trying to find a peaceful way forward. This is good.

It's tragic that apparently it would only have taken some real pressure from Biden for this to have been on the cards months and thousands of deaths ago, but here we are.

Sadly again, we don't know if Trump will end up giving Israel the go ahead to commit further attrociries now he's squashed the ongoing annoyance to him, we have to wait and see. But a just peace is always the right goal.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 19th, 2025, 3:30 pm The October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

The 1947 land-theft by UK/USA/UN is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 10:15 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 19th, 2025, 3:30 pm The October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

The 1947 land-theft by UK/USA/UN is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

I see. So you believe that every single Arab demographic should have a homeland but the Jews should not have a homeland, and Jews should be scattered around the world until they disappear. Basically, you advocate genocide. Better the Jews be removed from the world than the Palestinians - that's seemingly the consensus around here (aside from me).

Why do you think Jews should not have a homeland? That's what 1947 did - it created a homeland for the Jews. However, it was a poisoned chalice because the UK deliberately drew boundaries in the Middle East that guaranteed conflict (divide and rule). That's life.

Most of us consider the Taliban reprehensible, but that is very much the kind of society Hamas would implement in Israel once it is taken over. Why does everyone on this forum want to see this happen? Support for Hamas is ultimately support for the crushing of women's and queer rights.

Back in the day I also supported the PLO because I always supported underdogs in principle. However, I changed when I realised how many billions Palestinians had been give in aid, and that the leadership decided not to spend it on the people, or nation-building, but to buy weapons and build tunnels. That behaviour has been encouraged by western enablers, like those on this board.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 19th, 2025, 3:30 pm The October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 10:15 am The 1947 land-theft by UK/USA/UN is 100% the reason for what's happened since. That is the only cause.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm I see.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm So you believe that every single Arab demographic should have a homeland but the Jews should not have a homeland, and Jews should be scattered around the world until they disappear.

Er, no. No!

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm Basically, you advocate genocide.

No, I do not.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm Why do you think Jews should not have a homeland?

I don't. Religions don't have homelands. Nationalities have homelands. Religions have followers and believers.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm That's what 1947 did - it created a homeland for the Jews.

The "Jews" are and were a religious group. Here we are discussing land, in particular "homelands", and that pertains to geographical, nationalist, perspectives. Religion has no *direct* relevance to one's homeland.

A particular religious group were ejected from the Middle East, where they were living at the time. It happened nearly 3000 years ago. And the other residents of the Middle East remained there, and continued to live there. The 1947 land-grab took more than half of the land occupied by the indigenous people who never left (or were ejected), and gave it to the descendants of that tiny religious group as their "homeland"...

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 27th, 2025, 4:38 pm However, it was a poisoned chalice because the UK deliberately drew boundaries in the Middle East that guaranteed conflict (divide and rule).

That's another matter. True enough, but another matter.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 7:43 am A particular religious group were ejected from the Middle East, where they were living at the time. It happened nearly 3000 years ago. And the other residents of the Middle East remained there, and continued to live there. The 1947 land-grab took more than half of the land occupied by the indigenous people who never left (or were ejected), and gave it to the descendants of that tiny religious group as their "homeland"...

What we have is argy bargy. Palestine did not exist and consisted of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians, which is why the Gaza killings are not genocide. You can't commit genocide against a small subset of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians. They aren't a race, or even a proper culture. Palestine's only history is war. When they are given billions in donations, they don't spend it on aid or nation-building, but on trying to destroy Israel (weapons and tunnels that are strategically located under schools, hospitals and residential areas).

In the end, this comes down to the kind of world people want - one with more secular western values or more theistic totalitarian control. I find it strange that so many westerners would favour a society that builds and creates nothing, that kills gays and subjugates women over a relatively free society that is a world leader in irrigation practices that have saved millions of lives around the world.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 7:43 am A particular religious group were ejected from the Middle East, where they were living at the time. It happened nearly 3000 years ago. And the other residents of the Middle East remained there, and continued to live there. The 1947 land-grab took more than half of the land occupied by the indigenous people who never left (or were ejected), and gave it to the descendants of that tiny religious group as their "homeland"...

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 3:00 pm What we have is argy bargy. Palestine did not exist and consisted of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians...

Hmmm. The people of the lands we call "the Middle East" have been there for millennia. They share a common genetic heritage. This includes those Jewish people who retain the ancestry of those ejected 3000 years ago. They are *ALL* referred to as the Semitic peoples, although this usage is now mainly confined to linguists.

Just because the lines that the UK (and others?) unwisely drew on their maps show "Egypt" etc., doesn't mean much. The people of Palestine are also indigenous. To dismiss them because they don't enjoy a country-label is ... unjustified.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 3:00 pm ...which is why the Gaza killings are not genocide. You can't commit genocide against a small subset of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians. They aren't a race, or even a proper culture.

First, in the sense that you use it here, "race" does not exist. Ask a biologist.

Second, any/all groups of people share 'culture', the Palestinians no less than any other group.

And finally, genocide. Let's dispense (just for now) with that term, and call it what it is, mass killing. According to our Geneva Convention, and "never forget", mass killing is not acceptable. For anyone; from anyone. And if a nation seeks to kill large numbers of other people, that is mass killing; no excuses.

@Gertie

You are quite right I wont hate all Muslims and Jews [especially those in my family] if I find out who’s behind all this.

As of 2021, there were over 1.6 million people of Pakistani descent living in the United Kingdom. - google

Thanks to google AI for that info, but it forgot the at least two million immigrants who have come here since.
On the news they said that thousands of mostly white girls have been beaten sometimes tortured and then gang raped. Each of them raped by an average of at least ten men per night, for most days of the year and across many decades. I’d say that a very conservative estimate is that at least 1 in 10 Pakistanis are child rapists! Many of their friends and families will know that they are doing this - if not all of them, and banks will know that there are large sums of money in their vaults that cannot be accounted for.

They know they are doing all this EVIL to us, so stop with your Jewish propaganda, we are all absolutely sick of it. We should take the said money from them and kick them all out of our country, then arrest the police chiefs and politicians and throw them in jail for what remains of their miserable lives. No scapegoating, get the ones at the top of all parties involved, then publicly denounce the police and army for be so utterly disgraceful, and a shame to humanity.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Yesterday, 10:54 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 7:43 am A particular religious group were ejected from the Middle East, where they were living at the time. It happened nearly 3000 years ago. And the other residents of the Middle East remained there, and continued to live there. The 1947 land-grab took more than half of the land occupied by the indigenous people who never left (or were ejected), and gave it to the descendants of that tiny religious group as their "homeland"...

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 3:00 pm What we have is argy bargy. Palestine did not exist and consisted of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians...

Hmmm. The people of the lands we call "the Middle East" have been there for millennia. They share a common genetic heritage. This includes those Jewish people who retain the ancestry of those ejected 3000 years ago. They are *ALL* referred to as the Semitic peoples, although this usage is now mainly confined to linguists.

Just because the lines that the UK (and others?) unwisely drew on their maps show "Egypt" etc., doesn't mean much. The people of Palestine are also indigenous. To dismiss them because they don't enjoy a country-label is ... unjustified.

No, what is unjustified is your bait-and-switch. You can't have it both ways - either Palestine was invented in 1947 from disparate Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian tribes, or Palestine has always been a country.

Whatever, the land was given to Israel because it was so abject, so barren, only occupied by a few tribes. Then, when Israel developed the world's best irrigation systems to improve the land, suddenly everyone wants to lay claim to it.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑Yesterday, 10:54 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 28th, 2025, 3:00 pm ...which is why the Gaza killings are not genocide. You can't commit genocide against a small subset of Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians. They aren't a race, or even a proper culture.

First, in the sense that you use it here, "race" does not exist. Ask a biologist. 👍

Second, any/all groups of people share 'culture', the Palestinians no less than any other group.

And finally, genocide. Let's dispense (just for now) with that term, and call it what it is, mass killing. According to our Geneva Convention, and "never forget", mass killing is not acceptable. For anyone; from anyone. And if a nation seeks to kill large numbers of other people, that is mass killing; no excuses.

It's not genocide. Palestinians were not a distinct group - they are Arabs, and Arabs are the most dominant and fast-growing group in the world. They are gradually taking over various European nations as we speak, including yours.

Personally, I'd rather the world just let these warring nations to fight it out without interference, as is done in all in African conflicts.

It's is amusing to see how much westerners care about Palestinians and just how little they care about Sudanese, Rwandans and the like. The hypocrisy is huge. When it comes to hypocrisy, the left is at least as culpable as the right, maybe even more so.

Left, right, Palestine, Israel. They all have some things in common - they are blinkered, not quite sane, and best left alone to stew in their own toxins.