Philosophy Discussion Forums

Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 7:32 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 7:21 am

Raymond wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 6:47 am Life is inevitable! But to make an adventure out of it we can safely stay on Earth, making sure it can be lived by all forms that can live. Why creating AI if NI is all around? And who knows, maybe AS is created along with AI...Can you guess what I mean by AS?

Yes, WE will remain on Earth. No company or government will see fit to spend billions sending nobodies off world. Personally, I'd rather stay here anyway. The Moon and Mars are deserts. Titan is full of explosives.

AS = Artificial Sentience?

But why they should shoot something to other planets? Everything you can find there can be found here. Why not trying to keep things alive here, instead of **** things up up there.

AS=Artificial Stipudity, eeehh, Stupidity. :D

Because the Sun is already dying. The biosphere has been in train for 3.8 billion years. It's been complex, with larger multicellular organisms for about 700 million years. In one billion years, the Sun will have heated to the point where all oceans will have boiled away. Presumably, all complex life will already be long gone given that a 10C rise of ocean temps is considered catastrophic, let alone far higher temps along the way.

So there are two choices. Humans can focus exclusively on Earth, which would do absolutely nothing to prevent the upcoming climate chance and overpopulation "corrections". All intelligent complex life will be soon gone in context with the biosphere's age and that will be the end. Another choice is to work towards multi-planetary existence as a backup, because one day the Sun is going to swallow what will be by then just a charred, long dead world.

AI is pretty stupid now, but that won't always be the case.

Wishful dreaming. But you're free to do so! The Sun is not heating up and will stay 5 billion years with us still. It's wiser to cure what we made sick then just leave it to infeect other planets with the sickness of technology.

You really think AI will come alive? That's wishful thinking just the same. Only living things are truly intelligent. AI is just fast. Life is not a computer. They function totally different. A computer is made by hands. Life evolves. The functioning of a brain is completely different from the workings of a computer, no matter how complicated and sophisticated. The brain is analogous. There is no program stored in the brain. The brain has a (dynamic) memory capacity of about 10exp10exp20 (!). You can in principle store all structures in the universe in it (this seems to be at odds with the number of particles in the universe, about 10exp89, but it actually isn't). That's a bit more than 10èxp24 that can be stored in modern computers, which just excell in speed an miniaturization.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 2:26 am Wishful dreaming. But you're free to do so! The Sun is not heating up and will stay 5 billion years with us still.

Wishful dreaming. The Sun is heating up. In five billion years it swallows the Earth:

https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/earth-end/

For billions of years, Earth has been an ocean-covered world, with simple and complex life originating in the seas and only coming onto land relatively recently. Yet thanks to the future evolution of our Sun, our oceans won’t be around forever. As helium builds up in the Sun’s core, the region in which nuclear fusion occurs, it expands with dire consequences for us.

Over time, as it begins to exhaust the hydrogen available for nuclear fusion in its core, the Sun heats up and expands, becoming more luminous and emitting more power as time goes on. After another one-to-two billion years at the most, the amount of energy the Sun gives off will increase to a certain critical point: high enough that the amount of energy hitting a water molecule in Earth’s ocean during the day will be sufficient to boil it.

As the oceans boil and the atmosphere fills with water vapor, the greenhouse gas effects will take over, causing Earth’s temperature to rise catastrophically. Our planet will become more like Venus than like Earth today, becoming totally inhospitable to life on the surface. Only, perhaps, a few simple organisms will survive high in the cloud-tops, but life as we know it will end on our world. The cosmic experiment of complex, differentiated organisms will have come to its natural end.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 2:54 am

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 2:26 am Wishful dreaming. But you're free to do so! The Sun is not heating up and will stay 5 billion years with us still.

Wishful dreaming. The Sun is heating up. In five billion years it swallows the Earth:

https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/earth-end/

For billions of years, Earth has been an ocean-covered world, with simple and complex life originating in the seas and only coming onto land relatively recently. Yet thanks to the future evolution of our Sun, our oceans won’t be around forever. As helium builds up in the Sun’s core, the region in which nuclear fusion occurs, it expands with dire consequences for us.

Over time, as it begins to exhaust the hydrogen available for nuclear fusion in its core, the Sun heats up and expands, becoming more luminous and emitting more power as time goes on. After another one-to-two billion years at the most, the amount of energy the Sun gives off will increase to a certain critical point: high enough that the amount of energy hitting a water molecule in Earth’s ocean during the day will be sufficient to boil it.

As the oceans boil and the atmosphere fills with water vapor, the greenhouse gas effects will take over, causing Earth’s temperature to rise catastrophically. Our planet will become more like Venus than like Earth today, becoming totally inhospitable to life on the surface. Only, perhaps, a few simple organisms will survive high in the cloud-tops, but life as we know it will end on our world. The cosmic experiment of complex, differentiated organisms will have come to its natural end.

"In about 5 billion years, the hydrogen in the Sun's core will run out and the sun will not have enough fuel for nuclear fusion. So, in about 5 billion years, the Sun will stop shining."

I think the Earth comes to an end by tech sooner than by the Sun. History and the current state of the planet back me up.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 1:31 pm "Do you mean known forms of life or theoretical forms of life?"

All forms of life that were, are, and will be present in the process of natural evolution.

What do you mean with theoretical forms of life?

Future things are, by definition theoretical.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 4:00 am I think the Earth comes to an end by tech sooner than by the Sun. History and the current state of the planet back me up.

The tech IS the planet. It doesn't come from Mars or Titan. The Earth is re-forming itself. History and the current state of the planet make this clear.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 7:54 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 4:00 am I think the Earth comes to an end by tech sooner than by the Sun. History and the current state of the planet back me up.

The tech IS the planet. It doesn't come from Mars or Titan. The Earth is re-forming itself. History and the current state of the planet make this clear.

The Earth is not reforming itself, but people are reforming Earth.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 2:40 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 7:54 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 4:00 am I think the Earth comes to an end by tech sooner than by the Sun. History and the current state of the planet back me up.

The tech IS the planet. It doesn't come from Mars or Titan. The Earth is re-forming itself. History and the current state of the planet make this clear.

The Earth is not reforming itself, but people are reforming Earth.

If people are not part of the Earth, what are they part of?

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:03 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 2:40 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 7:54 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 4:00 am I think the Earth comes to an end by tech sooner than by the Sun. History and the current state of the planet back me up.

The tech IS the planet. It doesn't come from Mars or Titan. The Earth is re-forming itself. History and the current state of the planet make this clear.

The Earth is not reforming itself, but people are reforming Earth.

If people are not part of the Earth, what are they part of?

People are part of the Earth. And they use technology to reform it. But they could have chosen not to do so. But they didn't. They could not have chosen not to exist.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:03 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 2:40 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 7:54 pm

The tech IS the planet. It doesn't come from Mars or Titan. The Earth is re-forming itself. History and the current state of the planet make this clear.

The Earth is not reforming itself, but people are reforming Earth.

If people are not part of the Earth, what are they part of?

People are part of the Earth. And they use technology to reform it. But they could have chosen not to do so. But they didn't. They could not have chosen not to exist.

Is technology not part of the Earth too?

Humans absolutely had no choice. Societies that failed to keep up technologically were taken over by those with the capability.

The fossil fuel situation was inevitable too. If societies are powered by oil and coal, it should come as no surprise that oil and coal companies would be amongst the largest and most powerful companies. It would also be no surprise if their shareholders decide not to destroy the company for the sake of others.

Humans have at no stage been in control of their destiny. Meat puppets being shaped by their environment. Humans like to think they are in control, or that they should be in control, but the facts of the matter are plan. The control we thought we had was always more limited than we imagined.

"Humans absolutely had no choice. Societies that failed to keep up technologically were taken over by those with the capability."

Those with the capability could have said no to technology in the first place. There is nothing about technology that obliges us to invent it or use it. It is just one culture amongst many. A very dishonest culture, as it produces the material means to establish itself globally and destroy other cultures. Which it did. But it's still a human invention and we can leave it at will. There is no god of tech leading us. Though some treat it like a god and value AI higher than people and claim even that it's the next step in natural evolution, which claim is just used to excuse the development, as if it's a natural thing to happen.

Raymond wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:00 am

Humans absolutely had no choice. Societies that failed to keep up technologically were taken over by those with the capability.

Those with the capability could have said no to technology in the first place.

If they did, then they would also be taken over.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 9:46 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:00 am

Humans absolutely had no choice. Societies that failed to keep up technologically were taken over by those with the capability.

Those with the capability could have said no to technology in the first place.

If they did, then they would also be taken over.

There is no way out...

Raymond wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 4:57 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 9:46 pm

Raymond wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:00 am

Humans absolutely had no choice. Societies that failed to keep up technologically were taken over by those with the capability.

Those with the capability could have said no to technology in the first place.

If they did, then they would also be taken over.

There is no way out...

There never was

Unless, of course, you can find a way to be accepted by the Sentinelese https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCrS1EVxwMM