Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Present awareness]

Consul wrote:
The physiological states of the body-minus-brain influence the content of consciousness, but the generation of consciousness takes place only in the brain as the (only) organ of consciousness. What I experience is co-determined by the rest of the body, but that I experience something is determined by nothing but the brain. The state of consciousness as such is caused by, realized in, and confined to the brain.

A question one might ask is, where does the brain end and the body begin? The grey matter, contained in the scull, sits at one end of the spinal cord and the body at the other end. The spinal cord itself, is a freeway, with signals travelling in both directions at blinding speed. We may draw an arbitrary line between the grey matter and the body, but in reality, no such line exists.

[Consul]

A question one might ask is, where does the brain end and the body begin? The grey matter, contained in the scull, sits at one end of the spinal cord and the body at the other end. The spinal cord itself, is a freeway, with signals travelling in both directions at blinding speed. We may draw an arbitrary line between the grey matter and the body, but in reality, no such line exists.

The spatial boundary between the brain and the spinal cord may be somewhat vague, but this doesn't alter the fact that the brain is the organ of consciousness and as such an anatomically well-identifiable part of the organism.

-- Updated June 24th, 2016, 1:40 pm to add the following --

Note that to say that the brain is the organ of consciousness and as such its maker is not necessarily to say that it is also the (whole) subject of consciousness, its (whole) haver. I think the organism as a whole is the unit and center of subjecthood.

[Present awareness]

I agree that what we call "mind" and "consciousness" arise in the organ that we call "the brain". Our ability to think in abstract ways, allows us to step outside of ourselves (so to speak) and divide the universe into the 10,000 things. Sounds, represent words and words represent the things that they point to. Regardless of what sound we assign to represent a certain object, it is just a sound and has no influence on the object itself. A rose will smell just as sweet, by any other name.

Since we must use consciousness to find consciousness, it's like getting into your car to go look for your car. It's like a knife, trying to cut itself. The observer and the observed, are two sides of the same coin.

[Wilson]

Hard to get a handle on consciousness since it is how we see ourselves as independent entities, and it's difficult to think of creatures who don't have our version of it as being conscious. To try to understand it a little bit, we have to go back to our animal ancestors and wonder at what level of brainpower consciousness exists. Are ants and butterflies conscious, or are they fairly simply programmed to respond in specific ways to specific stimuli? How about frogs, or birds, or snakes, or mice? Are they conscious? When I watch otters or dolphins or kittens at play, I think that they are certainly aware that they are separate creatures from their playmates, and they are enjoying the game, just as we would. So I conclude that they are certainly conscious - different from our version but in many ways fairly similar. Thus I think that consciousness isn't exclusive to humans, and in fact there has been a gradual development of that characteristic through evolution. With the development of language, humans have a more advanced kind of consciousness, where we have conversations in our heads with ourselves, and we tend to think of that as consciousness - but we became homo sapiens presumably before complex language was invented.

I think of consciousness as awareness that one is an entity separate from outside nature and other creatures, so that individuals with the capacity for choice can act in ways beneficial to them, thus helping the species survive. And that is far from exclusive to humans. If animals like insects and worms and bacteria act by programming, they don't need consciousness so never developed it, but for animals able to act in more efficient ways when confronted with changing environments, by making choices - they need consciousness to help with picking their best options.

Where does consciousness reside? Obviously in the brain, related strictly to brain activity - neuronal structure and connections and electrical and chemical activity. The difficulty is in trying to figure out how the actions of those cells results in consciousness in ourselves. I'm skeptical that we'll ever understand that very well. Billions and billions of neurons with trillions of connections. Probably beyond the capacity of our species.

[Atreyu]

The thread goes nowhere because it's hard to tell what people mean by "consciousness". People are using the word and obviously meaning different things.

And as usual the main thrust seems to be to try and explain psychological principles in terms of physiology, particularly neurology.

[Rr6]

Pi * r^2 times 2 * pi r

2p2r3

https://www.google.com/search?q=formula ... 02&bih=555

INversion-OUTversion ^v (><)(><)
....1...........5......7............11......13..............17.......19.....


.0..................6....................12........................18.......... 3, 6, 9 the goose drank wine
.........3...................9........................15.........................went to heaven in a little row boat

......2.....4.............8....10...............14.....16.................20..
INversion-OUTversion ^v (><))(><)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Numerically Sequential, Topologically Abstract Pure Wave
0.............7...................13.....................19....
..1........6....8............12.....14.............18....20.
....2...5.........9.....11..............15.....17............
......4..............10......................16................
Numerically Sequential, Topologically Abstract Pure Wave

......Pi^3 = 31.00 62 7 80

Pi^4 / 4 = 24.35 22 7 27

2^2 = 4 vertexes of the tri-90 degree tetrahedron i.e. an XYZ tetra{4}hedron { 3D volume }

\Y/ = birds-eye-view of tetahedron or subdivided triangle aka tetrahedron halfway between inside-out and outside-out.
http://trinity2011.blogspot.com/2011/03 ... ement.html

\Y/ = 2D, texiticonic symbolism for most complex biological/soul entities of Universe.

Nervous system occupies "space". Five senses are occupied space phenomena ergo all metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts are a resultant of occupied space inter-transformations. This is common sense and does not require rocket science education.
Occupied space experiences > metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept.

Metaphyscial-1, mind/intellect/concept > discovery of patterns, discovery of cosmic absolute laws/principles, application of previous in technological ways to altar the environment to benefit the mind-accessing-creatures { humans }.
1} Cosmic Trinity:
..1a} metaphyscial-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of Space, Universe, God, Concepts, Infinite, Finite, Eternal, Cats, Dogs etc.....and spirit-of-intent..
--------------------------line-of-demarcation--------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite, non-occupied space,
....1} finite, occupied space Universe aka Uni-Verse

r6

-- Updated June 26th, 2016, 8:46 am to add the following --

Here is corrected numerical wave pattern

Numerical wave VE.jpg (34.75 KiB) Viewed 816 times