Philosophy Discussion Forums

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 6:01 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 2:07 am I read that Eddie was voted number 8 on the Greatest guitarists list, and I thought, hhmmm who are 6 guitarists better than him?

Steve Vai is the most technically-perfect guitarist I have ever seen, and Robert Fripp is pretty close to unbelievable. I'm not as focussed, these days, on lead guitarists, as I listen to a lot more jazz than I used to. So I'll leave it to others to identify the others.

I won't argue your points but there is a reason Beato called it the Van Halen Effect (not the Vai Effect)

I'm liking Breanna and Tricky as a team. Really dusty / faded rework and I think it's Breanna's haunted folk/blues adding a spin to it.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 2:07 am
I love that guy, Beato.

I read that Eddie was voted number 8 on the Greatest guitarists list, and I thought, hhmmm who are 6 guitarists better than him?

Everyone has their own list, I guess, that's why I'm always skeptical of the list.

Papus79 wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 4:03 pm I'm liking Breanna and Tricky as a team. Really dusty / faded rework and I think it's Breanna's haunted folk/blues adding a spin to it.

Liked this. Sounds like Soley in some parts.

For perspective, Eddie himself would acknowledge numerous guitarists more accomplished than him, or at least who can do a lot more on guitar than him. Neal Peart was another who tended to be overrated, with people saying he was "the best" even as he was taking jazz lessons from Freddie Gruber.

Aside from those mentioned by Pattern-chaser, numerous jazz fusion players have a far more sophisticated harmonic vocabulary than Eddie, who was generally a pentatonics rock n' roll guy. Alan Holdsworth (whom Eddie idolised), John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Al di Meola, Frank Gambale, Bill Connors, Frank Zappa (and his son Dweezil), Jan Ackerman, Larry Coryell, Larry Carlton, Steve Khan, Scott Henderson, Mike Stern, Robben Ford, John Abercrombie, John Goodsell ... and that's not mentioning a lot of the top prog players like Steve Howe, Steve Hackett and Adrian Belew.

Greta wrote: ↑October 9th, 2020, 12:38 am For perspective, Eddie himself would acknowledge numerous guitarists more accomplished than him, or at least who can do a lot more on guitar than him. Neal Peart was another who tended to be overrated, with people saying he was "the best" even as he was taking jazz lessons from Freddie Gruber.

Aside from those mentioned by Pattern-chaser, numerous jazz fusion players have a far more sophisticated harmonic vocabulary than Eddie, who was generally a pentatonics rock n' roll guy. Alan Holdsworth (whom Eddie idolised), John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Al di Meola, Frank Gambale, Bill Connors, Frank Zappa (and his son Dweezil), Jan Ackerman, Larry Coryell, Larry Carlton, Steve Khan, Scott Henderson, Mike Stern, Robben Ford, John Abercrombie, John Goodsell ... and that's not mentioning a lot of the top prog players like Steve Howe, Steve Hackett and Adrian Belew.

Hate to say it but dying does increase one's relative stature.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 9th, 2020, 1:25 am

Greta wrote: ↑October 9th, 2020, 12:38 am For perspective, Eddie himself would acknowledge numerous guitarists more accomplished than him, or at least who can do a lot more on guitar than him. Neal Peart was another who tended to be overrated, with people saying he was "the best" even as he was taking jazz lessons from Freddie Gruber.

Aside from those mentioned by Pattern-chaser, numerous jazz fusion players have a far more sophisticated harmonic vocabulary than Eddie, who was generally a pentatonics rock n' roll guy. Allan Holdsworth (whom Eddie idolised), John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Al di Meola, Frank Gambale, Bill Connors, Frank Zappa (and his son Dweezil), Jan Ackerman, Larry Coryell, Larry Carlton, Steve Khan, Scott Henderson, Mike Stern, Robben Ford, John Abercrombie, John Goodsell ... and that's not mentioning a lot of the top prog players like Steve Howe, Steve Hackett and Adrian Belew.

Hate to say it but dying does increase one's relative stature.

As seen by the outpourings of "the greatest" after Allan Holdsworth passed not so long ago.

Celebrity deaths bring a sense of scarcity - that they will be unavailable to us. Never mind that some of them had long retired, seeking a simpler lifestyle, and were artistically unavailable anyway. Further, many artists produce their best work in their twenties, when everything was new and they were full of creative fire.

If I was less anal I'd treat proclamations of "greatest" as emotional outpourings rather than factual claims :)

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 6:01 am Steve Vai is the most technically-perfect guitarist I have ever seen, and Robert Fripp is pretty close to unbelievable. I'm not as focussed, these days, on lead guitarists, as I listen to a lot more jazz than I used to. So I'll leave it to others to identify the others.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 1:14 pm I won't argue your points but there is a reason Beato called it the Van Halen Effect (not the Vai Effect)

Yes, there probably is. The truth is that I've seen Messrs Vai and Fripp play, while I haven't yet (knowingly) listened to a single Van Halen track. I wrote them off as part of that American soft-hard-rock thing, like Bon Jovi, and many like them. Perhaps I've overlooked some worthwhile music that way...?

BTW, who or what is "Beato"?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑October 9th, 2020, 9:59 am

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 6:01 am Steve Vai is the most technically-perfect guitarist I have ever seen, and Robert Fripp is pretty close to unbelievable. I'm not as focussed, these days, on lead guitarists, as I listen to a lot more jazz than I used to. So I'll leave it to others to identify the others.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 8th, 2020, 1:14 pm I won't argue your points but there is a reason Beato called it the Van Halen Effect (not the Vai Effect)

Yes, there probably is. The truth is that I've seen Messrs Vai and Fripp play, while I haven't yet (knowingly) listened to a single Van Halen track. I wrote them off as part of that American soft-hard-rock thing, like Bon Jovi, and many like them. Perhaps I've overlooked some worthwhile music that way...?

BTW, who or what is "Beato"?

Rick Beato is a session player and music instructor who is likely best known for his (to my eye) in depth and technical reviews of popular Rock songs of his era. Count Lucanor inserted 2 videos. The first is Beato's typical instructive review (of Van Halen's Running With the Devil), the second is a special review of a germane topic that he dubbed The Van Halen Effect. For someone who has never heard a VH track, I would heartily recommend a viewing of the latter as it would make further commentary coherent.

I very much like Rick Beato, who generously shares his massive music knowledge to the world. There's a few people on YT providing the kind of musical information I wished I could access when I was young.

I know its not exactly Van Halen, but I was reminded of this hoot from the mid 80, starring the imposibly big-mouthed Dave Lee Roth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui-zBq-f5XA

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑October 10th, 2020, 6:00 am I know its not exactly Van Halen, but I was reminded of this hoot from the mid 80, starring the impossibly big-mouthed Dave Lee Roth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui-zBq-f5XA

I had the single!

I was just thinking about the fall of the guitar hero. Most of today's pop has no guitar at all with long solos thought of as boring and gauchely egotistical. Often they were too :)

I imagine it starts with genuine virtuosos playing long solos because they feel hemmed in by short formats; that is, they have more musically to say than short formats allows. So then lesser players decide that it would be great to play long solos - and that's seemingly where the trouble started.

Still, I'd trade in today's heartless formulaic product for old school guitar egomania any day.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 9th, 2020, 3:53 pm For someone who has never heard a VH track, I would heartily recommend a viewing of the latter as it would make further commentary coherent.

Sorry, I won't view videos on a computer. Call it autistic awkwardness. But I have heard the first album now, the one voted his best by users of AllMusic, and I think I may have missed something worthwhile. But now I'm remedying my shortcoming....