Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Pattern-chaser]

If there is no Israel, Jews are finished - widely despised minorities, ready to be picked off by Muslims.

Not so. Again and again, you characterise this conflict as a religious war. This allows all supporters of Israel and Zionism to shout "Holocaust!", and to benefit from the sincere repugnance that all decent people feel toward those dreadful acts of WW2. But it is propaganda.

This is not a religious matter. It's purely and simply about possession and control of Palestine.
[N.B. not "Israel", "Palestine", a land that is outside Israel and which does not belong to Israel.]

Territory not God.

[Sy Borg]

If there is no Israel, Jews are finished - widely despised minorities, ready to be picked off by Muslims.

Not so. Again and again, you characterise this conflict as a religious war. This allows all supporters of Israel and Zionism to shout "Holocaust!", and to benefit from the sincere repugnance that all decent people feel toward those dreadful acts of WW2. But it is propaganda.

This is not a religious matter. It's purely and simply about possession and control of Palestine.
[N.B. not "Israel", "Palestine", a land that is outside Israel and which does not belong to Israel.]

Territory not God.

I'm not doing the characterising. Arabs have been wanting to annihilate Jews and Judaism for millennia. You can play word games but that is the fact staring you in the face at all times, but a fact you seem loathe to admit.

[Pattern-chaser]

If there is no Israel, Jews are finished - widely despised minorities, ready to be picked off by Muslims.

Not so. Again and again, you characterise this conflict as a religious war. This allows all supporters of Israel and Zionism to shout "Holocaust!", and to benefit from the sincere repugnance that all decent people feel toward those dreadful acts of WW2. But it is propaganda.

This is not a religious matter. It's purely and simply about possession and control of Palestine.
[N.B. not "Israel", "Palestine", a land that is outside Israel and which does not belong to Israel.]

Territory not God.

I'm not doing the characterising. Arabs have been wanting to annihilate Jews and Judaism for millennia.

Even if that is so — and I accept there is at least some truth in it, along, perhaps, with some exaggeration here? — it has nothing *directly* to do with the current territorial war of conquest and occupation in the Middle East.

Remember, wars of conquest don't start with the "victim" starting a fight by killing thousands and kidnapping hundreds. Wars of conquest start as we saw with Russia and Ukraine - a plan, a build-up and execution - as opposed to retaliating against an unprovoked attack (designed to scupper the Israel/Saudi deal ... mission accomplished).

[Sy Borg]

If there is no Israel, Jews are finished - widely despised minorities, ready to be picked off by Muslims.

Not so. Again and again, you characterise this conflict as a religious war. This allows all supporters of Israel and Zionism to shout "Holocaust!", and to benefit from the sincere repugnance that all decent people feel toward those dreadful acts of WW2. But it is propaganda.

This is not a religious matter. It's purely and simply about possession and control of Palestine.
[N.B. not "Israel", "Palestine", a land that is outside Israel and which does not belong to Israel.]

Territory not God.

I'm not doing the characterising. Arabs have been wanting to annihilate Jews and Judaism for millennia.

Even if that is so — and I accept there is at least some truth in it, along, perhaps, with some exaggeration here? — it has nothing *directly* to do with the current territorial war of conquest and occupation in the Middle East.

It has everything to do with the current war. When there is a war, the victor takes the spoils. It goes each way. Arabs tried to kill off Israeli Jews in the past and, after they lost the war, they complained bitterly about conceding ground - ground gained to reduce the chance of further attacks.

[Robert66]

'Jews are basically a tribe, a bloc, which most Muslims in the world are intent of eliminating.'

The current reality is the exact opposite. The quoted statement is a lie used to justify extreme Israeli aggression. If the statement were true, we would be seeing Israel's hospitals and schools being bombed right now. Gaza is being reduced to rubble, by a thuggish state, led by an evil monster who has already taken their place alongside Hitler and Pol Pot - Itamar Ben-Gvir.

[Sy Borg]

According to Robert, 16 million Jews will kill off 2.2 billion Muslims - over a billion of which are surely desperate to annihilate Israel. Just ore anti-Semitic cognitive dissonance and outrageous hypocrisy.

I am not justifying Israeli aggression. I don't like any aggression. I am simply pointing out the outrageous hypocrisy of those crying over Gaza - every one of them COMPLETELY ignores the Islamic slaughterhouse in Sudan, which is much worse, and will be far worse in the future.

They also ignored the Muslim-on-Muslim killing of almost half a million in Syria. A fifteenth of that number is far worse if perpetrated by Jews (and presumably whites), apparently.

The hypocrites also ignored the Muslim-on-Muslim killing of almost half a million in Yemen, by Hamas's friend and fellow Iran proxy - the Houthis.

They ignored multiple catastrophes in Africa.

They continue to ignore the Uyghurs and Tibetans.

They are silent on Ukraine.

But as soon as Jews are involved - the closet anti-Semites reveal themselves. Suddenly, they are infuriated by loss of life. Yeah yeah, sure. Give me a break. We all know that's going on. The double/treble/quadruple standards are so blatant.

[Robert66]

Crying over Gaza does not make someone ignorant and hypocritical in the way you describe. You are wrong.

The statement 'Jews are basically a tribe, a bloc, which most Muslims in the world are intent of eliminating' is in fact a justification being used in the way I have described.

Using the 'anti-semitic' card is insulting. Fury at unjustifiable loss of life has not occurred suddenly. It is not a recent phenomena at all.

[Sy Borg]

Using the 'anti-semitic' card is insulting. Fury at unjustifiable loss of life has not occurred suddenly. It is not a recent phenomena at all.

If you are outraged enough to publicly comment about Jews but say nothing about the many worse humanitarian issues happening both recently and currently, then you are anti-Semitic.

You should own it, not b insulted by it. I have friends who are anti-Semitic. You should own the "insult" with pride if you are going to single out Jewish activities and ignore Islamic and east Asian activities. I don't judge you for being ant-Semitic. No one is perfect and there are many worse things to be. I am simply pointing out the bleeding obvious.

[Robert66]

Using the 'anti-semitic' card is insulting. Fury at unjustifiable loss of life has not occurred suddenly. It is not a recent phenomena at all.

If you are outraged enough to publicly comment about Jews but say nothing about the many worse humanitarian issues happening both recently and currently, then you are anti-Semitic.

Ok - this has nothing to do with me.

You should own it, not b insulted by it. I have friends who are anti-Semitic. You should own the "insult" with pride if you are going to single out Jewish activities and ignore Islamic and east Asian activities. I don't judge you for being ant-Semitic. No one is perfect and there are many worse things to be. I am simply pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Since I am not anti-semitic, I won't "own it". And I have never singled out Jewish activities, nor do I intend to.