Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Mo_reese]

Pattern-Chaser With respect are you being facetious?

[Mo_reese]

In the US we've lost a lot of our Constitutional rights in the last few decades. Even right not there is a fight to censor organizations that are designated by the Treasury Dept as "terrorist supporting". The bill would give secretaries of the United States Treasury the power to designate nonprofit organizations as "terrorist-supporting" and, thus, strip those groups of their tax-exempt status.

In a blog post urging members of Congress to kill the bill, Kia Hamadanchy, ACLU's senior policy counsel, said, "The freedom to dissent without fear of government retribution is a vital part of any well-functioning democracy, which is why Congress must block H.R. 9495 before it's too late."

[Belinda]

Mo_ reece wrote:
"Sen Sanders and the Left (not the neo-liberals Dem elite) want universal healthcare, protect Medicare and Social Security, an end to the dangerous monopolization of corporations, etc. The billionaires killed that populist movement as it had zero billionaire support. Trump and his billionaires were able to defeat the Dem neo-liberal establishment."

Belinda replies: Is it possible that Senator Sanders and the Left would gain political clout not from billionaires but from popular culture? NB I don't confuse popular culture with populism.

[Pattern-chaser]

My complaint is that freedom of speech is under threat in some countries.

I don't think you need to worry too much about this. The current Imperial Leaders of the World, the USA, will expend (if necessary) dollars, lives, and missiles to protect 'free speech' of any and every sort. With their active protection, I think 'free speech' will remain substantially unaffected for the immediate future.

Pattern-Chaser With respect are you being facetious?

I am being cynical, perhaps even disrespectful, but no, not facetious. Given its Imperial protection, I honestly can't see that free speech is at any significant risk.

[Pattern-chaser]

Mo_ reece wrote:
"Sen Sanders and the Left (not the neo-liberals Dem elite) want universal healthcare, protect Medicare and Social Security, an end to the dangerous monopolization of corporations, etc. The billionaires killed that populist movement as it had zero billionaire support. Trump and his billionaires were able to defeat the Dem neo-liberal establishment."

Belinda replies: Is it possible that Senator Sanders and the Left would gain political clout not from billionaires but from popular culture? NB I don't confuse popular culture with populism.

Political clout, in America, is wholly dependent on money. And billionaires have all the money, so the proles who comprise "popular culture" don't really have a voice, do they?

[Belinda]

The medium for the voice of popular culture is art. Art, so far, is free from commercialisation or politicisation. Soviet art, and Nazi art were restricted, and unless Trump makes artistic freedom a punishable offence art will be a medium for popular culture.

[Sy Borg]

The medium for the voice of popular culture is art. Art, so far, is free from commercialisation or politicisation. Soviet art, and Nazi art were restricted, and unless Trump makes artistic freedom a punishable offence art will be a medium for popular culture.

At this stage, art - especially comedy - has been restricted, not by governments, but by media companies, asset management companies and by advertisers. Rather than ban art, Trump will actually relax the situation and allow more freedom.

[Mo_reese]

The medium for the voice of popular culture is art. Art, so far, is free from commercialisation or politicisation. Soviet art, and Nazi art were restricted, and unless Trump makes artistic freedom a punishable offence art will be a medium for popular culture.

At this stage, art - especially comedy - has been restricted, not by governments, but by media companies, asset management companies and by advertisers. Rather than ban art, Trump will actually relax the situation and allow more freedom.

I agree with you except for your prediction re. Trump. He is a tyrant and will clamp down on more of our rights.

[Mo_reese]

Mo_ reece wrote:
"Sen Sanders and the Left (not the neo-liberals Dem elite) want universal healthcare, protect Medicare and Social Security, an end to the dangerous monopolization of corporations, etc. The billionaires killed that populist movement as it had zero billionaire support. Trump and his billionaires were able to defeat the Dem neo-liberal establishment."

Belinda replies: Is it possible that Senator Sanders and the Left would gain political clout not from billionaires but from popular culture? NB I don't confuse popular culture with populism.

Political clout, in America, is wholly dependent on money. And billionaires have all the money, so the proles who comprise "popular culture" don't really have a voice, do they?

The US is no longer a functioning constitutionally controlled democratic republic. We live under the rule of an oligarchy with a media run by a handful of wealthy individuals that favor the oligarchy. According to Thomas Frank we need a left leaning populist movement, like that of Sen Sanders, to wrest control from the oligarchy but it failed. Instead a right leaning pseudo-populist movement has taken control with, according to Frank a tenancy toward a nationalistic authoritarian government.

[Sy Borg]

The medium for the voice of popular culture is art. Art, so far, is free from commercialisation or politicisation. Soviet art, and Nazi art were restricted, and unless Trump makes artistic freedom a punishable offence art will be a medium for popular culture.

At this stage, art - especially comedy - has been restricted, not by governments, but by media companies, asset management companies and by advertisers. Rather than ban art, Trump will actually relax the situation and allow more freedom.

I agree with you except for your prediction re. Trump. He is a tyrant and will clamp down on more of our rights.

This is what many people say but I took time to actually listen to what he says rather than listening to what people say about him, and I'm not seeing it this Hitler-esque figure being falsely presented. I am not saying Trump's without flaws, but there have been an extraordinary number of lies told about him that many people believe uncritically.

He does appear likely to clamp down on illegal migrants and some transgenders, especially in sport and women's spaces. I expect that BLM-style riots of arson, vandalism, violence and looting would not be tolerated, though. Abortion fears appear to be ungrounded as the damage was already done with devolved responsibility to individual states, and he has repeatedly said he's not interested in a federal ban.

[Belinda]

The medium for the voice of popular culture is art. Art, so far, is free from commercialisation or politicisation. Soviet art, and Nazi art were restricted, and unless Trump makes artistic freedom a punishable offence art will be a medium for popular culture.

At this stage, art - especially comedy - has been restricted, not by governments, but by media companies, asset management companies and by advertisers. Rather than ban art, Trump will actually relax the situation and allow more freedom.

There is a conversation to be had about art in popular culture-----the division between free art in pop culture and commercialised art in pop culture. I hope that art will survive as free , even it forced underground.

[Mo_reese]

[
I agree with you except for your prediction re. Trump. He is a tyrant and will clamp down on more of our rights.

This is what many people say but I took time to actually listen to what he says rather than listening to what people say about him, and I'm not seeing it this Hitler-esque figure being falsely presented. I am not saying Trump's without flaws, but there have been an extraordinary number of lies told about him that many people believe uncritically.
He does appear likely to clamp down on illegal migrants and some transgenders, especially in sport and women's spaces. I expect that BLM-style riots of arson, vandalism, violence and looting would not be tolerated, though. Abortion fears appear to be ungrounded as the damage was already done with devolved responsibility to individual states, and he has repeatedly said he's not interested in a federal ban.

A lot of world leaders and people in Germany underestimated Hitler. I see that today with Trump. The two have many similarities like:
Strong authoritarian personalities. Trump has had major run-ins with the media, "dark state", and judiciary and refused to accept the results of the 2020 election, some say even promoting the violence of the Jan 6, attack of the US Capital.
Both promoted nationalistic ideologies appealing to the people vs. the elite.
Both worked at controlling the media, portrayed themselves as idol-like figures and tenancies toward isolationism.
The biggest difference between the two are the degree and scope of the their actions. Trump believes he received a mandate and it most likely will go to his head. And remember Hitler had a lot of help with his reign, Trump most likely will also.

[Sy Borg]

[
I agree with you except for your prediction re. Trump. He is a tyrant and will clamp down on more of our rights.

This is what many people say but I took time to actually listen to what he says rather than listening to what people say about him, and I'm not seeing it this Hitler-esque figure being falsely presented. I am not saying Trump's without flaws, but there have been an extraordinary number of lies told about him that many people believe uncritically.
He does appear likely to clamp down on illegal migrants and some transgenders, especially in sport and women's spaces. I expect that BLM-style riots of arson, vandalism, violence and looting would not be tolerated, though. Abortion fears appear to be ungrounded as the damage was already done with devolved responsibility to individual states, and he has repeatedly said he's not interested in a federal ban.

A lot of world leaders and people in Germany underestimated Hitler. I see that today with Trump. The two have many similarities like:
Strong authoritarian personalities. Trump has had major run-ins with the media, "dark state", and judiciary and refused to accept the results of the 2020 election, some say even promoting the violence of the Jan 6, attack of the US Capital.
Both promoted nationalistic ideologies appealing to the people vs. the elite.
Both worked at controlling the media, portrayed themselves as idol-like figures and tenancies toward isolationism.
The biggest difference between the two are the degree and scope of the their actions. Trump believes he received a mandate and it most likely will go to his head. And remember Hitler had a lot of help with his reign, Trump most likely will also.

Trump and Hitler are utterly different. Hitler was obsessed with order, Trump is anarchic. Hitler had deep hangups about the Jews and even wrote a tome about them, Trump just wants immigrants to be documented. Trump is a former liberal, and three of his closest allies are people who left the Democrats because they felt the Dems had lost their way.

[Mo_reese]

Sy-Borg: "Trump and Hitler are utterly different. Hitler was obsessed with order, Trump is anarchic. Hitler had deep hangups about the Jews and even wrote a tome about them, Trump just wants immigrants to be documented. Trump is a former liberal, and three of his closest allies are people who left the Democrats because they felt the Dems had lost their way."
Quick Reply: Yes there are differences but the more important similarities are as I mentioned. Trump is a narcissist and only cares about the undocumented immigrants because they are a group he can demonize. He doesn't have an ounce of goodness in him.

[Mo_reese]

I am being cynical, perhaps even disrespectful, but no, not facetious. Given its Imperial protection, I honestly can't see that free speech is at any significant risk.

I had to ask because some times I miss sarcasm.
Here is the latest but certainly not the last attack on free speech in the US. The House just passed a terrible bill that will allow the Sec of the Treasury to arbitrarily decide to end the tax-exempt status of non-profits by labeling them as "terrorist-supporting". This will give the Trump admin tremendous powers to shut down non-profits that they don't like. This bill is aimed at silencing those protesting the Israeli genocide. It is a major strike against free speech.