Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[detail]

One cannot overcome axioms and the basis of our thoughts, so the meaning of meaning is irrelevant. Meaning is the simple one on one identification of things and situation with abstract axioms and theorems with perceptions of the real world. Outside of this identification meaning has no meaning.

[Pattern-chaser]

One cannot overcome axioms and the basis of our thoughts, so the meaning of meaning is irrelevant. Meaning is the simple one on one identification of things and situation with abstract axioms and theorems with perceptions of the real world. Outside of this identification meaning has no meaning.

So meaning is nothing but identification or recognition? No mention even of significance (to humans)? Your definition seems somewhat lacking to me....

[detail]

One cannot overcome axioms and the basis of our thoughts, so the meaning of meaning is irrelevant. Meaning is the simple one on one identification of things and situation with abstract axioms and theorems with perceptions of the real world. Outside of this identification meaning has no meaning.

So meaning is nothing but identification or recognition? No mention even of significance (to humans)? Your definition seems somewhat lacking to me....

The problem is that the idenfification is for everybody something different and the axioms as well, that how a metaphysical discussion on the basis of personal perception takes place. This generates then a more general setting and with it true open minded thought life.

[popeye1945]

What is the meaning of meaning? Meaning is a biological readout of the sensing of the physical world, meaning is relative to ones biology. It is a biological readout, is call at times apparent reality, because it is apparent and not the whole picture, which might be called ultimate reality which is unavailable to us.

[Pattern-chaser]

Meaning is a biological readout of the sensing of the physical world...

Surely meaning is our interpretation of the significance of that "biological readout"? I.e. not the sensation or perception, but the conclusions we draw from it.

[popeye1945]

Surely meaning is our interpretation of the significance of that "biological readout"? I.e. not the sensation or perception, but the conclusions we draw from it.
[/quote]

Yes certainly, perception and sensations are the information to be processed, the conclusions of the process is the said to be the readout, input/sensing, process = HOT but only to ones biology, all meaning is biologically determined.

[Pattern-chaser]

...all meaning is biologically determined.

In the sense that meaning is assigned by biologically-based creatures, then yes. Otherwise, I can't see the point of the conclusion you draw, sorry.

[popeye1945]

No problem

[Pattern-chaser]

...all meaning is biologically determined.

In the sense that meaning is assigned by biologically-based creatures, then yes. Otherwise, I can't see the point of the conclusion you draw, sorry.

No problem

OK. So I'll be clearer: what is the point of the conclusion you draw (that "all meaning is biologically determined")? What are you getting at?

[popeye1945]

I do not believe that a great many realize they have the freedom to value what they please and do not necessarily have to accept what is in place. I would say that most people do not know that apparent reality is but a biological readout, that the world appears to be the way it is, because we are biological just so. What does the meaning of meaning as a topic indicate to you? Some people believe in objectivity, that meaning can be found out there, as independently meaningful. Alone an object just is, and cannot even be known as object in the absence of biological consciousness, in other words the physical world is meaningless. I would also venture the opinion that most people believe in human action, as apposed to being reactionary creatures, and the physical world as object is the source of cause, that biology is fated to react to. I think it would be a saner world if people in their interpersonal relationships thought in the terms of reacting, rather than acting as thought there was no motivation which moved them, but that could be another topic.

[Pattern-chaser]

I do not believe that a great many realize they have the freedom to value what they please and do not necessarily have to accept what is in place. I would say that most people do not know that apparent reality is but a biological readout, that the world appears to be the way it is, because we are biological just so. What does the meaning of meaning as a topic indicate to you? Some people believe in objectivity, that meaning can be found out there, as independently meaningful. Alone an object just is, and cannot even be known as object in the absence of biological consciousness, in other words the physical world is meaningless. I would also venture the opinion that most people believe in human action, as apposed to being reactionary creatures, and the physical world as object is the source of cause, that biology is fated to react to. I think it would be a saner world if people in their interpersonal relationships thought in the terms of reacting, rather than acting as thought there was no motivation which moved them, but that could be another topic.

There are a lot of words there, and not all of them make sense to me. But I can agree that "the physical world is meaningless" until or unless some conscious being creates and assigns that meaning. This is no disrespect to the physical world, but only an admission that beauty (or in this case, meaning) is in the eye of the beholder.

[popeye1945]

Well the title of the thread is "What is the meaning of meaning," this is of necessity the function of the orientation of the organism for its survival value and its later development in understanding not only the natural world, but civilization and the products thereof, in the way of biological extensions. I do apologize for any obscurity you find in my communications, I shall try to clarify where you point out a problem.

[figtree]

nothing philosophical here...."culture determines perceptions and expectations". ferdiknad Tonnes
"human nature does not exist". Ortega y Gasset

[value]

So, when we use the word "meaningful" regarding some notion, we mean that the notion has some significant consequence of particular relevance to us and our lives.

Interesting topic!

In my opinion, actual meaning in anything can only unlock itself in the form of value (which I view as a term that means 'beholder of meaning') while actual meaning itself is a priori applicable to what is deemed to be 'reality'.

Meaning is what bonds 'the repeatable world' with what is not repeatable but that is logically vital for its repeatable nature. (repeatable equals empirical or 'the scope of meaningful relevance in science')

In my opinion it is pure meaning (non repeatable or 'non value-able' meaning) that lays at the root of conscious experience.

[popeye1945]

One cannot overcome axioms and the basis of our thoughts, so the meaning of meaning is irrelevant. Meaning is the simple one on one identification of things and situation with abstract axioms and theorems with perceptions of the real world. Outside of this identification meaning has no meaning.

The meaning of meanings being process is for the individual the physical world. AS Spinoza stated the body is the mind's singular idea and through the alterations of said body one comes to know what to the individual is apparent reality.