Philosophy Discussion Forums

NeilWallace wrote: ↑September 6th, 2021, 9:42 am Natural Evil though is still created by the Old Testiment Creator God.
Job's solution seems to be God created Evil but he works in mysterious ways so just have faith in that.
There seems to be other solutions though. A very simple one being to decide that God does not exist.

It is impossible to blame something for events when that something does not in fact Exist.

I agree with the questioner "What has God actually done wrong?" that many Atheists have an illogical angry blameful attitude towards something they do not believe exists.

For me Evil is a mixture of Natural and Human. God has done nothing wrong in that sense. Because there is no God.

Can we live without evil? Does it have a benefit and must remain active?

Regards
DL

Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 5th, 2021, 4:22 pm You could have Jesus as the Good Deity, God as the Old Testimant Creator Deity, then you would be fairly orthodox and call my position a heresy. The Bible's good that way in its flexibility. Glad its not the 17th Century. Hide the matches and kindling wood.

Can Jesus be the good guy when he has promised to genocide us with Armageddon?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑September 7th, 2021, 11:01 am

Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 5th, 2021, 4:22 pm You could have Jesus as the Good Deity, God as the Old Testimant Creator Deity, then you would be fairly orthodox and call my position a heresy. The Bible's good that way in its flexibility. Glad its not the 17th Century. Hide the matches and kindling wood.

Can Jesus be the good guy when he has promised to genocide us with Armageddon?

Regards
DL

For me, its just a contradictory story. Mine's would only be a literary analysis of character. You would need to have that discussion with a believer.

Can we live without evil? Does it have a benefit and must remain active?

Regards
DL

Personally, you assume Life to be good. If Earth was lifeless there would be no evil. That would to my mind be the best of all worlds - that life was never created in the first place.

God has that "benefit" actually - he doesn't exist and hence is not a cause of evil and suffering.

The evil that is the case seems to be necessary however much we rightfully hate and deplore it.

- Evil is necessary for life. I agree.

If there was no life there would be no Evil.

If God had chosen not to create life -there would be no evil. A state of nothingness - is not particularly good, bad or anything. Nothingness is ethically pure in that sense.

If God existed then it is difficult not to form the conclusion that God was wrong in creating life. However, As I don't believe he exists - I'm not pinning the rap on him for it.

Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 7th, 2021, 6:47 pm

Can we live without evil? Does it have a benefit and must remain active?

Regards
DL

Personally, you assume Life to be good. If Earth was lifeless there would be no evil. That would to my mind be the best of all worlds - that life was never created in the first place.

God has that "benefit" actually - he doesn't exist and hence is not a cause of evil and suffering.

Inquisitions and jihads.

Need I say more?

Regards
DL

Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 7th, 2021, 6:53 pm The evil that is the case seems to be necessary however much we rightfully hate and deplore it.

- Evil is necessary for life. I agree.

If there was no life there would be no Evil.

If God had chosen not to create life -there would be no evil. A state of nothingness - is not particularly good, bad or anything. Nothingness is ethically pure in that sense.

If God existed then it is difficult not to form the conclusion that God was wrong in creating life. However, As I don't believe he exists - I'm not pinning the rap on him for it.

Rap.

You mean reward, if I read you right.

Remember that the world and you are the best you can possibly be, given entropy and our history.

Regards
DL

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 am So many debates gravitate around the degrading of the Lord. In our attempts to disprove him or discredit him, we find some satisfaction. These questions and accusations bring us to a new question, what has he actually done wrong?

God-in-the-highest can do no wrong. Well, it might be said that none do wrong because all move entropically in line with the flow of the universe, as required person thermodynamic constraints... So, what are your definitions of right and wrong?

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 amWhen we look at an imperfect world and all the pain and sorrow that goes along with it; we often say then he cannot exist. Looking at the story of Adam and Eve, we find why our world is broken. If we go from that story, we find that things were perfect, but that we were not satisfied enough with it. Somehow, we managed to not only doom that perfection, but also put continuity in it. In a world that is doomed, should it not be strange when something goes right, rather when something goes wrong?

There is a difference between YHWH (B166-ER's transformed self, if I "understand" correctly) and God-in-the-highest.

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 amMainly, the Bible tells us how to live our lives right. It is concerned with our safety and protection and seemingly, that is what the crux of the book is. Despite this good intention, (of a book that is looking out for us), we are so unsatisfied with the Lord and the book, that we find it necessary to degrade and attack both. Why do we reward good intentions with anger and disbelief?

No, the Bible does not do that. No, it's not. It does not have good intention. Jesus seems to refer to the Lord as being God-in-the-highest, of whom would be different from the Jewish God [arc of the covenant god that zapped people for accidentally(?) dropping it].

The Bible is non-sense. Use it as firewood, office paper, toilet paper (I did), etc...

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 amReading the Word correctly is what is important. History is not instruction, but rather like drama, which we can choose not to adopt in our lives; yet people see everything in it as instruction, rather than life lessons to learn. They take the worse things out of context, rather choosing to focus on the story and so losing the message.

I find it interesting that I have to undo your brainwashing, your conditioning and neurolinguistic programming related to your reward areas of your nervous system.

There is no choice.

Book of Ecclesiastes: Chapter 1, verse 9:

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Please study physics and the philosophy of time. Ecclesiastes was an eternalist (believed in the philosophy of eternalism), in my opinion.

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 amSo the question in this thread is, what has the Lord actually done wrong, since his main goal was always to keep us safe. He is practical in all things, there does not seem to be anything abstract when it comes to sin, but we can always rather find some logical explanation why any sin is “wrong.” “Sin” and “wrong,” seem to be outdated words, which need reforming in order to demonstrate its practical value. So again, what has the Lord actually done wrong?

Mmm. I remember one time texting my ex-girlfriend that I look out for number 1. I think rational egoism is a real thing. People look out for others only in so far that it helps their own interest. I remember reading about the prisoner's dilemma supposedly being a rebuttal to such; but whatever I saw about that, I saw a flaw. I don't feel like going through all of it again.

All sin leads to death. If one has sinned, one is to die. Did Adam and Eve immediately die? No, they did not.

It seems to me, Dennis, that your view on life is the kind that might well arise as a result of perceiving that you've been the victim of an injustice of some kind, and a resultant feeling that life doesn't make sense. What they sometimes call an existential crisis.

Whitedragon wrote: ↑December 11th, 2016, 8:41 am So many debates gravitate around the degrading of the Lord. In our attempts to disprove him or discredit him, we find some satisfaction. These questions and accusations bring us to a new question, what has he actually done wrong?

When we look at an imperfect world and all the pain and sorrow that goes along with it; we often say then he cannot exist. Looking at the story of Adam and Eve, we find why our world is broken. If we go from that story, we find that things were perfect, but that we were not satisfied enough with it. Somehow, we managed to not only doom that perfection, but also put continuity in it. In a world that is doomed, should it not be strange when something goes right, rather when something goes wrong?

Mainly, the Bible tells us how to live our lives right. It is concerned with our safety and protection and seemingly, that is what the crux of the book is. Despite this good intention, (of a book that is looking out for us), we are so unsatisfied with the Lord and the book, that we find it necessary to degrade and attack both. Why do we reward good intentions with anger and disbelief?

Reading the Word correctly is what is important. History is not instruction, but rather like drama, which we can choose not to adopt in our lives; yet people see everything in it as instruction, rather than life lessons to learn. They take the worse things out of context, rather choosing to focus on the story and so losing the message.

So the question in this thread is, what has the Lord actually done wrong, since his main goal was always to keep us safe. He is practical in all things, there does not seem to be anything abstract when it comes to sin, but we can always rather find some logical explanation why any sin is “wrong.” “Sin” and “wrong,” seem to be outdated words, which need reforming in order to demonstrate its practical value. So again, what has the Lord actually done wrong?

It seems to me that all your confusion about the role of god, the character of god, and the puzzling acts of god, can all be solved very simply with a single statement that saves all appearances.

Can the idea of God be reworked so that God is not fate, but instead is absolute being plus the repository of good?

Belindi wrote: ↑October 5th, 2021, 5:12 am Can the idea of God be reworked so that God is not fate, but instead is absolute being plus the repository of good?

Can it? Well given that God's were invented by humans, humans are the perfect ones to tweak their definition of God's for whatever reason they choose.

LuckyR wrote: ↑October 5th, 2021, 11:33 am

Belindi wrote: ↑October 5th, 2021, 5:12 am Can the idea of God be reworked so that God is not fate, but instead is absolute being plus the repository of good?

Can it? Well given that God's were invented by humans, humans are the perfect ones to tweak their definition of God's for whatever reason they choose.

That's the good reason for doing metaphysics.

What God has done wrong is trivialise the suffering needed for life to evolve from microbes to humans/cyborgs. To God, this is just a brief period of growing pains before the universe reaches its potentials in the next trillion years. A mere blink of an eye in eternity. For the most unlucky of us, though, it can be an entire lifetime of trouble, torment and suffering.

If God/s is/are responsible, then they have failed to empathise with their creation, about as concerned for our individual welfare as a kid cares about the individual ants in their ant farm. If God is not responsible for all this, the suffering inflicted by an entropic reality is just a matter of "it is what it is" :)

A far better question is what have humans done wrong to even think there is such an entity without asking where would IT have come from. And to think that even in these times there are still very many who think Jesus is going to save their pathetic, pitiable, moist little souls simply by their belief in Jesus as the son of a non-existent god. The REAL god is the ground you stand on and supports your existence.