Philosophy Discussion Forums

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 10th, 2024, 6:50 pm Oh come now, you know that Iraq doesn't matter. No, only Palestinians matter, already tyrannised and traumatised by Hamas's misrule - and they only matters if those pesky Jews are doing it. Everyone else has a free pass.

Oh come now, the vast majority of world leaders still back Biden and Netanyahu. But, to everyone's surprise, I suspect, the 'common' people of many countries have expressed support for the plight and the cause of the Palestinian people too. Few are those who call for violence and death; most people seem concerned for humanitarian reasons. And few also are those whose support is only for one side in this ghastly conflict. I think (hope?) that most people recognise that this is not a simple problem, and that there are no simple solutions to it.

It is also the case, I think, that most people do care about other conflicts, and similar situations too, but there are just so many of them that no-one can keep them all in mind, all the time. That doesn't mean they (we) don't care. And in a topic discussing one conflict in particular, the treatment of other conflicts is little more than a distraction, no?

Fifty percent of all UN complaints about crimes against humanity are made against Israel? That means Israel must be responsible for fifty percent of all atrocities in the world, right? Closer to one percent, if that. So why the disparity? Corruption.

Look at the ANC, bringing the case against Israel. How would you feel as a South African, with your country to going to hell in every way, and your leaders are swanning around playing bigshot in international courts? Why are they not fixing South Africa? That's too hard for them, so they are cynically gaining favour with voters by playing on their historical anti-Semitism (Israel copped disproportionate blame for apartheid, which was supported by plenty of nations). Most of the world seems to be falling for the latest gambit.

So much care for the "plight" of Palestinians (largely caused by Hamas, but no one cares about that) and ZERO care for any other suffering people. And I do mean ZERO.

There is a laser focus on Palestinians that means ignoring all other people in trouble. The reason is hatred of Jews - either directly or, in this case, naively, as people are increasingly suckered in by Hamas's propaganda (and no one cares that they use human shields, whose deaths and pathetic images Hamas gleefully displays for the world media).

This conflict is not worth special discussion over the many, many other conflicts in the world. This thread is therefore an anti-Semitic distraction in itself by holding Israel to standards not applies to anyone else. The most valuable aspect of this thread is to highlight just how deeply anti-Semitism has penetrated societies, and how the lessons of WWII have been lost.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 11th, 2024, 2:58 pm Fifty percent of all UN complaints about crimes against humanity are made against Israel? That means Israel must be responsible for fifty percent of all atrocities in the world, right? Closer to one percent, if that. So why the disparity? Corruption.

Look at the ANC, bringing the case against Israel. How would you feel as a South African, with your country to going to hell in every way, and your leaders are swanning around playing bigshot in international courts? Why are they not fixing South Africa? That's too hard for them, so they are cynically gaining favour with voters by playing on their historical anti-Semitism (Israel copped disproportionate blame for apartheid, which was supported by plenty of nations). Most of the world seems to be falling for the latest gambit.

So much care for the "plight" of Palestinians (largely caused by Hamas, but no one cares about that) and ZERO care for any other suffering people. And I do mean ZERO.

There is a laser focus on Palestinians that means ignoring all other people in trouble. The reason is hatred of Jews - either directly or, in this case, naively, as people are increasingly suckered in by Hamas's propaganda (and no one cares that they use human shields, whose deaths and pathetic images Hamas gleefully displays for the world media).

This conflict is not worth special discussion over the many, many other conflicts in the world. This thread is therefore an anti-Semitic distraction in itself by holding Israel to standards not applies to anyone else. The most valuable aspect of this thread is to highlight just how deeply anti-Semitism has penetrated societies, and how the lessons of WWII have been lost.

Whatever else is true of this dreadful conflict, the plight of the Palestinian people has nothing to do with Hamas, or even with the Palestinian people as a whole. Their plight was brought about by those who 'gave' 55% (!!!) of Palestine to Jews, as 'Israel', in 1948, and the land that Israel has since grabbed in addition. The Palestinians have attempted to resist this land-grab, yes, but the theft and invasion of Palestine was not their doing. Blame the UN, the USA, the UK, and all those who have supported the status quo since.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 12th, 2024, 8:56 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 11th, 2024, 2:58 pm Fifty percent of all UN complaints about crimes against humanity are made against Israel? That means Israel must be responsible for fifty percent of all atrocities in the world, right? Closer to one percent, if that. So why the disparity? Corruption.

Look at the ANC, bringing the case against Israel. How would you feel as a South African, with your country to going to hell in every way, and your leaders are swanning around playing bigshot in international courts? Why are they not fixing South Africa? That's too hard for them, so they are cynically gaining favour with voters by playing on their historical anti-Semitism (Israel copped disproportionate blame for apartheid, which was supported by plenty of nations). Most of the world seems to be falling for the latest gambit.

So much care for the "plight" of Palestinians (largely caused by Hamas, but no one cares about that) and ZERO care for any other suffering people. And I do mean ZERO.

There is a laser focus on Palestinians that means ignoring all other people in trouble. The reason is hatred of Jews - either directly or, in this case, naively, as people are increasingly suckered in by Hamas's propaganda (and no one cares that they use human shields, whose deaths and pathetic images Hamas gleefully displays for the world media).

This conflict is not worth special discussion over the many, many other conflicts in the world. This thread is therefore an anti-Semitic distraction in itself by holding Israel to standards not applies to anyone else. The most valuable aspect of this thread is to highlight just how deeply anti-Semitism has penetrated societies, and how the lessons of WWII have been lost.

Whatever else is true of this dreadful conflict, the plight of the Palestinian people has nothing to do with Hamas, or even with the Palestinian people as a whole. Their plight was brought about by those who 'gave' 55% (!!!) of Palestine to Jews, as 'Israel', in 1948, and the land that Israel has since grabbed in addition. The Palestinians have attempted to resist this land-grab, yes, but the theft and invasion of Palestine was not their doing. Blame the UN, the USA, the UK, and all those who have supported the status quo since.

Hamas are front and centre of this entire conflict. Why does the west give them a free pass?

Is anyone talking about the ocean grab of the Chinese as they drive Filipino and Vietnamese fishermen out of business? No, Israel are the only nations taking anyone's territory.

Why don't China's neighbours start firing missiles into China in protest of having their territory and resources stolen? Because they know China would destroy them.

Why did Hamas fire missiles into Israel? Because they knew the IDF would destroy them, and that was a publicity opportunity not to be missed. Hamas simply don't care about their people at all, while the other governments do (to some extent).

I not that people are less worried about the Russian invasion of Ukraine than Israel's illegal settlements.

Again, it seems that only Palestinians matter. Everyone else who is oppressed can get stuffed, right? To the river to the sea! blah blah. It's nauseating hypocrisy.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 12th, 2024, 4:21 pm To the river to the sea! blah blah. It's nauseating hypocrisy.

From the river to the sea is merely an aspiration of the Palestinian people. But Israel has exactly the same aspiration: to control all of Palestine. That sentiment is common to both sides.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 13th, 2024, 10:06 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 12th, 2024, 4:21 pm To the river to the sea! blah blah. It's nauseating hypocrisy.

From the river to the sea is merely an aspiration of the Palestinian people. But Israel has exactly the same aspiration: to control all of Palestine. That sentiment is common to both sides.

Well, no. Palestine would not chip away at Palestine's land in the same way as China is chipping away at Filipino, Malay and Vietnamese marine territories. They would do what other Arab nations have done - conduct a scouring and scattering of Jews (while Israel allows Arabs to work peacefully in their lands).

What would happen if the Philippines, Malaysia or Vietnam took Palestine's approach? China would crush them - and you can be sure there would not be dozens UN resolutions and cases made against China. At this stage, China is firing water cannons at Filipino, Malay and Vietnamese fishing boats. If China thought they were a threat to them (as Palestine are to Israel), the boats would be sunk.

That's why the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam are not sending missiles into China. They know what would happen. Hamas knew what would happen too, but they didn't care. They knew it would mean untold civilian deaths - because they were hiding behind civilians. But they didn't care. Yet few judge them for their misdeeds.

Fifty percent of UN complaints are about Israel. What percentage of world atrocities are Israel causing? Maybe one percent? UN resources are clearly wasted on biased cases while completely ignoring other, far worse, ones. It's corruption. The WHO is corrupted too. It's a shame, but perhaps inevitable, that international bodies meant to bring us together would become corrupt.

Skin colour matters today more than ever. The west thought it could eliminate its racism but instead it managed to encourage virulent anti-white racism. Oops.

I'm sorry, but I can't see how it contributes to this topic to broaden the scope to all unjust conflicts in the world. They all are (morally) wrong, and probably politically wrong too. We could get even more confused, and widen our scope to wonder if eco-collapse (the most important issue that currently exists) is a contributory factor to any of these wars?

You are ignoring opportunity costs. While small numbers of Palestinians are dying, far more Yemenis and Syrians are dying, but there's no chance to protest about that because you are so busy saving Palestinians.

Likewise, you cannot protest against China's expansionist activities in the South China Sea (and beyond) because you are so very worried about what Jews are doing. Or perhaps you figure that, when Muslims and Africans kill each other, or when Chinese steal other nation's food, that they don't know any better?

There seems to be a common attitude today that can be summarised as, 'There's no point protesting Muslim-on-Muslim violence. They are too primitive to know any better. But we expect much better from Jews and Caucasians!'.

Of the UN's first 103 motions, 56 were against Israel. Yet Israel was party to maybe 1% of the world's violence, if that. Again, there are opportunity costs. Islamic and other dictators can shore up their positions, free to commit war crimes without scrutiny, because the UN is too busy with Israel.

It's a shame. I used to believe in the UN but it's become corrupted. How many motions were against the US, China and Russia? I think you can guess the number, despite Iraq, Ukraine and, to a lesser extent (touch wood), Taiwan.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 14th, 2024, 7:22 pm You are ignoring opportunity costs. While small numbers of Palestinians are dying, far more Yemenis and Syrians are dying, but there's no chance to protest about that because you are so busy saving Palestinians.

Likewise, you cannot protest against China's expansionist activities in the South China Sea (and beyond) because you are so very worried about what Jews are doing. Or perhaps you figure that, when Muslims and Africans kill each other, or when Chinese steal other nation's food, that they don't know any better?

There seems to be a common attitude today that can be summarised as, 'There's no point protesting Muslim-on-Muslim violence. They are too primitive to know any better. But we expect much better from Jews and Caucasians!'.

Of the UN's first 103 motions, 56 were against Israel. Yet Israel was party to maybe 1% of the world's violence, if that. Again, there are opportunity costs. Islamic and other dictators can shore up their positions, free to commit war crimes without scrutiny, because the UN is too busy with Israel.

It's a shame. I used to believe in the UN but it's become corrupted. How many motions were against the US, China and Russia? I think you can guess the number, despite Iraq, Ukraine and, to a lesser extent (touch wood), Taiwan.

Respectful request: please don't refer to anti-Jewish feelings or actions. This is not a religious conflict, but a nationalist one. It's about land, nothing more. This is not about "anti-Semitism" (meaning 'anti-Jewish', not 'anti-Israel'). This conflict is terrible enough without falsely introducing religious discrimination too.

Thanks.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 8:42 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 14th, 2024, 7:22 pm You are ignoring opportunity costs. While small numbers of Palestinians are dying, far more Yemenis and Syrians are dying, but there's no chance to protest about that because you are so busy saving Palestinians.

Likewise, you cannot protest against China's expansionist activities in the South China Sea (and beyond) because you are so very worried about what Jews are doing. Or perhaps you figure that, when Muslims and Africans kill each other, or when Chinese steal other nation's food, that they don't know any better?

There seems to be a common attitude today that can be summarised as, 'There's no point protesting Muslim-on-Muslim violence. They are too primitive to know any better. But we expect much better from Jews and Caucasians!'.

Of the UN's first 103 motions, 56 were against Israel. Yet Israel was party to maybe 1% of the world's violence, if that. Again, there are opportunity costs. Islamic and other dictators can shore up their positions, free to commit war crimes without scrutiny, because the UN is too busy with Israel.

It's a shame. I used to believe in the UN but it's become corrupted. How many motions were against the US, China and Russia? I think you can guess the number, despite Iraq, Ukraine and, to a lesser extent (touch wood), Taiwan.

Respectful request: please don't refer to anti-Jewish feelings or actions. This is not a religious conflict, but a nationalist one. It's about land, nothing more. This is not about "anti-Semitism" (meaning 'anti-Jewish', not 'anti-Israel'). This conflict is terrible enough without falsely introducing religious discrimination too.

Thanks.

That's the case for you, but there are many protesting who do specifically have an issue with Jews. The fact is that this war is happening because a significant subset of Muslims want to exterminate all Jews, just as they wiped out or displaced any Jews living in their countries. At this point, anti-Israel and anti-Semitism can be treated as the same the same - unless a person has displayed proportionate concern about far worse Muslim on Muslim killing and oppression in Yemen, Syria and others. However, I am yet to hear of a single person making a huge fuss about Palestine that has even bothered to mention what's happening in Yemen and Syria, let alone protest against it.

After watching Harvard's and other college presidents prevaricate on the question of whether calling for Jewish genocide is against college policy. Rest assured, if the question related to Muslims or Africans, the answers would have been definitive.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm That's the case for you, but there are many protesting who do specifically have an issue with Jews.

If that is so, then I oppose them utterly, as most pro-Palestinian supporters would.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm The fact is that this war is happening because a significant subset of Muslims want to exterminate all Jews, just as they wiped out or displaced any Jews living in their countries.

That is, sadly, true. And yet the Israeli attitude toward Palestine and Palestinians is ... exactly the same. They seek to expel them entirely from Palestine, and take control of all of historic Palestine for themselves. I oppose both aims. I only sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians, fair enough — they've had a pretty raw deal since 1948 — but we must be even-handed here. Those who wish to oppose, or even exterminate, other groups should be opposed, and stopped if possible. Whichever 'side' they're on.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 9:22 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm That's the case for you, but there are many protesting who do specifically have an issue with Jews.

If that is so, then I oppose them utterly, as most pro-Palestinian supporters would.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm The fact is that this war is happening because a significant subset of Muslims want to exterminate all Jews, just as they wiped out or displaced any Jews living in their countries.

That is, sadly, true. And yet the Israeli attitude toward Palestine and Palestinians is ... exactly the same. They seek to expel them entirely from Palestine, and take control of all of historic Palestine for themselves. I oppose both aims. I only sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians, fair enough — they've had a pretty raw deal since 1948 — but we must be even-handed here. Those who wish to oppose, or even exterminate, other groups should be opposed, and stopped if possible. Whichever 'side' they're on.

I don't sympathise with the Palestinians because then I would also have to sympathise with the Uyghurs, Yemenis, Syrians, South Sudanese, Libyans, Burmese, Algerians etc. Do you have enough sympathy to feel grief for the entire world 24/7? Is that a sensible idea or a form of self-flagellation?

I will NOT become emotional on cue because the media tells me to. The media didn't tell me to be sympathetic towards suffering Uyghurs, Yemenis, Syrians, South Sudanese, Libyans, Burmese or Algerians, so why should I be all emotional over Palestine?

Because they are suffering at the hands of Jews, right? Jews, like whites, are seen as The Oppressors, according to modern Marxists.

If pain is not being caused by Jews or whites, no problem. It's only pain caused by Jews and whites that's a major problem, right?

That's because protesters think that Jews and whites should know better, but brown or black people - like animals - are assumed not to know any better and are given a free pass.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm That's the case for you, but there are many protesting who do specifically have an issue with Jews.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 9:22 am If that is so, then I oppose them utterly, as most pro-Palestinian supporters would.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 16th, 2024, 4:11 pm The fact is that this war is happening because a significant subset of Muslims want to exterminate all Jews, just as they wiped out or displaced any Jews living in their countries.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 9:22 am That is, sadly, true. And yet the Israeli attitude toward Palestine and Palestinians is ... exactly the same. They seek to expel them entirely from Palestine, and take control of all of historic Palestine for themselves. I oppose both aims. I only sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians, fair enough — they've had a pretty raw deal since 1948 — but we must be even-handed here. Those who wish to oppose, or even exterminate, other groups should be opposed, and stopped if possible. Whichever 'side' they're on.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm I don't sympathise with the Palestinians because then I would also have to sympathise with the Uyghurs, Yemenis, Syrians, South Sudanese, Libyans, Burmese, Algerians etc. Do you have enough sympathy to feel grief for the entire world 24/7? Is that a sensible idea or a form of self-flagellation?

Not grief, that would be too draining, but yes, I see no problem with having sympathy for *all* those who have been unnecessarily and unjustly harmed. It's a "sensible idea".

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm I will NOT become emotional on cue because the media tells me to.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm The media didn't tell me to be sympathetic towards suffering Uyghurs, Yemenis, Syrians, South Sudanese, Libyans, Burmese or Algerians, so why should I be all emotional over Palestine?

Because they got a raw deal, which was none of their doing; they didn't and don't deserve what was done to them (i.e. land-theft by the UN, US and UK).

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm Because they are suffering at the hands of Jews, right? Jews, like whites, are seen as The Oppressors, according to modern Marxists.

If pain is not being caused by Jews or whites, no problem. It's only pain caused by Jews and whites that's a major problem, right?

That's because protesters think that Jews and whites should know better, but brown or black people - like animals - are assumed not to know any better and are given a free pass.

Do words like these really help?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 18th, 2024, 8:32 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm The media didn't tell me to be sympathetic towards suffering Uyghurs, Yemenis, Syrians, South Sudanese, Libyans, Burmese or Algerians, so why should I be all emotional over Palestine?

Because they got a raw deal, which was none of their doing; they didn't and don't deserve what was done to them (i.e. land-theft by the UN, US and UK).

I would say they have brought in on themselves.

Imagine what would happen to the Philippines if they retaliated against China stealing their maritime territory by sending missiles into China and kidnapped and tortured hundreds of Chinese people. They would be hit worse at least as badly as as Israel hitting Hamas.

Hamas knew what would happen to the Palestinian people as a result of their attack and they did it anyway. They could stop the fighting tomorrow, if they chose - if they cared as much about Palestinians as westerners following the media.

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 18th, 2024, 8:32 am

Sy Borg wrote: ↑January 17th, 2024, 3:54 pm Because they are suffering at the hands of Jews, right? Jews, like whites, are seen as The Oppressors, according to modern Marxists.

If pain is not being caused by Jews or whites, no problem. It's only pain caused by Jews and whites that's a major problem, right?

That's because protesters think that Jews and whites should know better, but brown or black people - like animals - are assumed not to know any better and are given a free pass.

Do words like these really help? 🤮

It's the ugly truth, a truth that many either deny or try to hide.

Israel as a colonizing force can claim no concept of self-defense, as to Hamas, is it part of a greater resistance movement. The fact is that America, Israel, Canada, Great Britain and I believe Australia are engaged in the genocide of the Palestinian people. This conglomerate of these nations represents the old colonial powers, and they feel presently, and rightly so, that power is slipping away from them. Their colonial mentality has carried them far in exploiting weaker nations, but a new day has dawned. America will no longer be the unipolar power of the world; a multi-polar world is already manifest. America and her bum boys have shown their true nature for all the world to see, and it is ugly, it is amoral and it is starkly brutal. According to the way many seem to think, the Vietcong then were terrorists during the Vietnam War, brutalizing the poor Americans, and again their bum boys. Israel, I believe will not exist after this is over, presently over a million Jews have left the country, and the numbers are growing. Zionism is fascism and a good many of Jews recognize this, and recognize the crimes against humanity that their country has embarked upon.

THE BRICS FOREVER, AND THE END OF COLONIALISM!