Philosophy Discussion Forums

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 12:12 am

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2022, 1:15 pm Infinities always lead to Absurdities, Observer or no Observer.

There are two types of infinities (referenced as endless and infinite).

1. potential infinity which has a begin introduced by an Observer (mathematics) and that is merely to be considered endless.
2. actual infinity that does not have a begin (beginning-less).

How is an infinity absurd other than when an Observer is attempting to count it?

Wouldn't it be absurd to consider physical Objects to be intrinsically finite of nature and that an Observer is a posteriori able to count them?

What is a begin - the fundamental nature of finitude - otherwise than the begin of pattern recognition by an Observer?

Endlessness and Beginninglessness are both Absurd in the first place.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 7:14 am Endlessness and Beginninglessness are both Absurd in the first place.

I would consider the opposite to be the case.

Can you please answer the following question?

What is a begin - the fundamental nature of finitude - otherwise than the begin of pattern recognition by an Observer?

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 2:21 am

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 7:14 am Endlessness and Beginninglessness are both Absurd in the first place.

I would consider the opposite to be the case.

Can you please answer the following question?

What is a begin - the fundamental nature of finitude - otherwise than the begin of pattern recognition by an Observer?

Begin is always relative to Now.

What about a begin in Geography, Geometry or Mathematics?

What would be indicated with Now in a purely physical world?

You previously indicated that you believe that time must have had a begin.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑April 29th, 2022, 10:01 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 9:30 am A user on this forum mentioned the following:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:57 pm The problem is the "continuing flux of change." There's this state, and then it changes to that state, etc.

To get to any particular state, T, if there's an infinity of previous change states, it's not possible to arrive at T, because an infinity can't be completed to get to T.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm Now, if there's an infinite amount of time prior to the creation of the Earth, how does the time of the creation of the Earth arrive. For it to arrive time has to pass through an infinity of durations, right?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 8:32 am The whole point is that if there's an infinite amount of time prior to Tn then we can't get to Tn because you can't complete an infinity of time prior to Tn. Why not? Because infinity isn't a quantity or amount we can ever reach or complete.

Would you agree with his reasoning and do you believe that time necessarily has a begin?

All are perfect examples of why Infinities always result in Absurdities.
There are no Infinite Physical things, whether it's Space, Time or Energy.

Can you please explain more details about the meaning and/or nature of Now?

Would the indicated Now have a begin itself? If so, how can it be relative to Now in the same sense as anything else?

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 5th, 2022, 1:10 pm What about a begin in Geography, Geometry or Mathematics?

What would be indicated with Now in a purely physical world?

You previously indicated that you believe that time must have had a begin.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑April 29th, 2022, 10:01 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 9:30 am A user on this forum mentioned the following:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:57 pm The problem is the "continuing flux of change." There's this state, and then it changes to that state, etc.

To get to any particular state, T, if there's an infinity of previous change states, it's not possible to arrive at T, because an infinity can't be completed to get to T.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm Now, if there's an infinite amount of time prior to the creation of the Earth, how does the time of the creation of the Earth arrive. For it to arrive time has to pass through an infinity of durations, right?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 8:32 am The whole point is that if there's an infinite amount of time prior to Tn then we can't get to Tn because you can't complete an infinity of time prior to Tn. Why not? Because infinity isn't a quantity or amount we can ever reach or complete.

Would you agree with his reasoning and do you believe that time necessarily has a begin?

All are perfect examples of why Infinities always result in Absurdities.
There are no Infinite Physical things, whether it's Space, Time or Energy.

Can you please explain more details about the meaning and/or nature of Now?

Would the indicated Now have a begin itself? If so, how can it be relative to Now in the same sense as anything else?

Time does not have a Begin because Time does not even exist. There is only Now. Now does not have a Timestamp like, there is this Now, and then the Now from yesterday. There is only Now. No Time.

If the indicated Now does not have a begin, how can it be said that it is not actual infinite (beginning-less) in nature? Can you please explain more details about the meaning and/or nature of Now?

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 3:21 am If the indicated Now does not have a begin, how can it be said that it is not actual infinite (beginning-less) in nature? Can you please explain more details about the meaning and/or nature of Now?

Not only does it not have Infinite Time, it has Exactly Zero Time.

You previously mentioned that you agree with the following reasoning of a user on this forum:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:57 pm The problem is the "continuing flux of change." There's this state, and then it changes to that state, etc.

To get to any particular state, T, if there's an infinity of previous change states, it's not possible to arrive at T, because an infinity can't be completed to get to T.

The user considers both facts and time to be states of affairs:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑March 28th, 2020, 2:50 pmFacts are states of affairs

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 3:47 pmT1/T2 are simply names we can use for those different states of affairs.

1. do you agree with the cited user that Now is a "continuing flux of change"?
2. do you agree with the cited user that facts are states of affairs?

If your answer is yes and yes, either Now would require a begin or physical reality cannot be considered finite.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 7:32 am Begin is always relative to Now.

If Now does not have a begin, how can it introduce an end (finitude)?

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 12:54 pm You previously mentioned that you agree with the following reasoning of a user on this forum:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:57 pm The problem is the "continuing flux of change." There's this state, and then it changes to that state, etc.

To get to any particular state, T, if there's an infinity of previous change states, it's not possible to arrive at T, because an infinity can't be completed to get to T.

The user considers both facts and time to be states of affairs:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑March 28th, 2020, 2:50 pmFacts are states of affairs

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 3:47 pmT1/T2 are simply names we can use for those different states of affairs.

1. do you agree with the cited user that Now is a "continuing flux of change"?
2. do you agree with the cited user that facts are states of affairs?

If your answer is yes and yes, either Now would require a begin or physical reality cannot be considered finite.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 7:32 am Begin is always relative to Now.

If Now does not have a begin, how can it introduce an end (finitude)?

Because Now has no Time property at all. It is Incoherent to specify a begin or an End for Now.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 1st, 2022, 7:30 am

Nightmare wrote: ↑April 30th, 2022, 4:30 am A) The extreme of a pole coincides with the opposite pole, that is, the null reference of matter. Life is born from the cyclic dichotomy pulsation, between the above reference and its opposite pole. That is, where matter takes shape. [06/09/19].

Z) Although a limit is inducible in the limitlessness, the opposite is impossible determine in the limit itself. [06/09/19].

Without B through Y, how can we know what you are trying to say?

Time is an artificially support conjecture, which simply can be pinned as "Energy/Mass". Clearly there couldn't be a time linearity deducted correlation, even just for Perfect-Past beyond the moment.

Take a photo?!

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2022, 11:30 am

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑April 29th, 2022, 10:01 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑April 28th, 2022, 9:30 am A user on this forum mentioned the following:

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:57 pm The problem is the "continuing flux of change." There's this state, and then it changes to that state, etc.

To get to any particular state, T, if there's an infinity of previous change states, it's not possible to arrive at T, because an infinity can't be completed to get to T.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm Now, if there's an infinite amount of time prior to the creation of the Earth, how does the time of the creation of the Earth arrive. For it to arrive time has to pass through an infinity of durations, right?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 8:32 am The whole point is that if there's an infinite amount of time prior to Tn then we can't get to Tn because you can't complete an infinity of time prior to Tn. Why not? Because infinity isn't a quantity or amount we can ever reach or complete.

Would you agree with his reasoning and do you believe that time necessarily has a begin?

All are perfect examples of why Infinities always result in Absurdities.
There are no examples.

Absurdities, physical reality?

As it appears you make the mistake to exclude the Observer from consideration. Is that correct?

Correctly gone.
Space and motions.
Unidirectionality of Quantum Void expression.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 8th, 2022, 10:58 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 12:54 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 7:32 am Begin is always relative to Now.

If Now does not have a begin, how can it introduce an end (finitude)?

Because Now has no Time property at all. It is Incoherent to specify a begin or an End for Now.

Can you explain how Now can introduce an end (finitude) for physical reality?

Nightmare wrote: ↑May 13th, 2022, 12:42 am

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 1st, 2022, 7:30 am

Nightmare wrote: ↑April 30th, 2022, 4:30 am A) The extreme of a pole coincides with the opposite pole, that is, the null reference of matter. Life is born from the cyclic dichotomy pulsation, between the above reference and its opposite pole. That is, where matter takes shape. [06/09/19].

Z) Although a limit is inducible in the limitlessness, the opposite is impossible determine in the limit itself. [06/09/19].

Without B through Y, how can we know what you are trying to say?

Time is an artificially support conjecture, which simply can be pinned as "Energy/Mass". Clearly there couldn't be a time linearity deducted correlation, even just for Perfect-Past beyond the moment.

Take a photo?!

There can be only relative time. There can be no absolute time. See https://theintermind.com/#Timelessness

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 13th, 2022, 9:50 am

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 8th, 2022, 10:58 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 12:54 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 7:32 am Begin is always relative to Now.

If Now does not have a begin, how can it introduce an end (finitude)?

Because Now has no Time property at all. It is Incoherent to specify a begin or an End for Now.

Can you explain how Now can introduce an end (finitude) for physical reality?

Now does not have a Begin so there is no need for an End. See https://theintermind.com/#Timelessness my latest thinking on Time.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 13th, 2022, 10:23 am

psyreporter wrote: ↑May 13th, 2022, 9:50 amCan you explain how Now can introduce an end (finitude) for physical reality?

Now does not have a Begin so there is no need for an End. See https://theintermind.com/#Timelessness my latest thinking on Time.

It concerns Timelessness of Conscious Space. You previously indicated that the Physical World develops independently from Conscious Space to later - after millions of years evolution - Connect to Conscious Space and that lower life such as bacteria are potentially not connected to Conscious Space.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑April 18th, 2022, 8:25 am"Today it is clear that there is a causality trajectory from the Physical World to the Conscious World and not the other way around."
...
The reality of the situation is that the Neural Activity in the Brain causes or produces in some way the Redness Experience.

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑April 26th, 2022, 7:33 am The Neurons evolve into what they are. If there is a survival advantage to developing the capacity to Connect then that is what the Neurons will do over millions of years. If Microbes have any Conscious Experience they will have to be able to Connect to Consciousness.

If the indicated Timeless Now originates from Conscious Space, does that imply that lower life such as bacteria potentially do not experience time?

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑May 4th, 2022, 7:32 am Begin is always relative to Now.

How can a begin always be relative to Timeless Now when Physical World is not always connected to Conscious Space?