Philosophy Discussion Forums

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:39 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 8:17 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 7:33 am Fun is all right, Viswa, but fun is not always ethical.

Okay, but who is to say which is Ethical which is not?
Then isn't it like curbing people from freedom to have fun, like those Egoistic Greedy Sages and Theism?

You and I and all responsible adults have a duty to decide what is right and what is wrong. If you hand over this responsibility to priests, a king, or a holy book then you have failed to be responsible.

This Democracy, shall be suitable only in States, where Country is in Good Economical Level and People are mostly compassionate. Even US and UK faces many threats and Evils because of this Democracy.

But, in case like India and Pak and Srilanka and etc., Low Economical Level People are High nd want Daily Amount for Survival. They sell "votes" for Money. They don't want to decide for themselves, and not interested to, but only need Money for survival, and asks themselves to those Politicians "Those Politicians have given this much Money, when you gonna give me? Only if you give more, I will vote you, or else I gonna vote for that Politician". They are not well Educated and Well Compassionate nd Well Economical Position, but their needs manipulate them, and Democracy ruins them by giving "Votes".
Votes, not my rights to them, but to satisfy my needs. Even if you give Education, they won't sit and hear, and only to Run for Daily needs as "Fun" and "Necessities" is what they want out of Money but no Ethical Nation.

So, if they are more in such Countries, Democracy is another Failure. Even it's a Failure in the One were it started implemented too, as they couldn't take Action against Unethical Person at large, due to the Competition posed by Opposing Parties and needed Votes of such Few Unethical People too to Win Opposing Leaders.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 10:08 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:39 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 8:17 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 7:33 am Fun is all right, Viswa, but fun is not always ethical.

Okay, but who is to say which is Ethical which is not?
Then isn't it like curbing people from freedom to have fun, like those Egoistic Greedy Sages and Theism?

You and I and all responsible adults have a duty to decide what is right and what is wrong. If you hand over this responsibility to priests, a king, or a holy book then you have failed to be responsible.

This Democracy, shall be suitable only in States, where Country is in Good Economical Level and People are mostly compassionate. Even US and UK faces many threats and Evils because of this Democracy.

But, in case like India and Pak and Srilanka and etc., Low Economical Level People are High nd want Daily Amount for Survival. They sell "votes" for Money. They don't want to decide for themselves, and not interested to, but only need Money for survival, and asks themselves to those Politicians "Those Politicians have given this much Money, when you gonna give me? Only if you give more, I will vote you, or else I gonna vote for that Politician". They are not well Educated and Well Compassionate nd Well Economical Position, but their needs manipulate them, and Democracy ruins them by giving "Votes".
Votes, not my rights to them, but to satisfy my needs. Even if you give Education, they won't sit and hear, and only to Run for Daily needs as "Fun" and "Necessities" is what they want out of Money but no Ethical Nation.

So, if they are more in such Countries, Democracy is another Failure. Even it's a Failure in the One were it started implemented too, as they couldn't take Action against Unethical Person at large, due to the Competition posed by Opposing Parties and needed Votes of such Few Unethical People too to Win Opposing Leaders.

That is true. You need a judicial system independent of the ruler, you need workers who are not so overworked and listless that they are apathetic, you need literate workers(although education levels don't have to be high for democracy to work well enough), you need elections that are free from corruption and bribery.
Religions alone are useless for democratic reform because ruling elites bend religious doctrines so that social mobility does not happen.
People have to revolt against a corrupt ruler for democracy to work. The Abrahamic religions are effective when they inspire and endorse social movements towards democracy and against corrupt rulers. Unfortunately usually these religions are used to conserve old hierarchies.
To conserve old hierarchies the religions are interpreted as glorifying poverty, mystifying the divine rights of rulers and rich people, and romanticising cheap consumer goods, entertainments, and easy consolations.

How very coherent.

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 3:07 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 10:08 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:39 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 8:17 am

Okay, but who is to say which is Ethical which is not?
Then isn't it like curbing people from freedom to have fun, like those Egoistic Greedy Sages and Theism?

You and I and all responsible adults have a duty to decide what is right and what is wrong. If you hand over this responsibility to priests, a king, or a holy book then you have failed to be responsible.

This Democracy, shall be suitable only in States, where Country is in Good Economical Level and People are mostly compassionate. Even US and UK faces many threats and Evils because of this Democracy.

But, in case like India and Pak and Srilanka and etc., Low Economical Level People are High nd want Daily Amount for Survival. They sell "votes" for Money. They don't want to decide for themselves, and not interested to, but only need Money for survival, and asks themselves to those Politicians "Those Politicians have given this much Money, when you gonna give me? Only if you give more, I will vote you, or else I gonna vote for that Politician". They are not well Educated and Well Compassionate nd Well Economical Position, but their needs manipulate them, and Democracy ruins them by giving "Votes".
Votes, not my rights to them, but to satisfy my needs. Even if you give Education, they won't sit and hear, and only to Run for Daily needs as "Fun" and "Necessities" is what they want out of Money but no Ethical Nation.

So, if they are more in such Countries, Democracy is another Failure. Even it's a Failure in the One were it started implemented too, as they couldn't take Action against Unethical Person at large, due to the Competition posed by Opposing Parties and needed Votes of such Few Unethical People too to Win Opposing Leaders.

That is true. You need a judicial system independent of the ruler, you need workers who are not so overworked and listless that they are apathetic, you need literate workers(although education levels don't have to be high for democracy to work well enough), you need elections that are free from corruption and bribery.
Religions alone are useless for democratic reform because ruling elites bend religious doctrines so that social mobility does not happen.
People have to revolt against a corrupt ruler for democracy to work. The Abrahamic religions are effective when they inspire and endorse social movements towards democracy and against corrupt rulers. Unfortunately usually these religions are used to conserve old hierarchies.
To conserve old hierarchies the religions are interpreted as glorifying poverty, mystifying the divine rights of rulers and rich people, and romanticising cheap consumer goods, entertainments, and easy consolations.

Sorry Belindi. You are only pointing Religion as a problem here, where it is not in South India. In Kerala, and Tamil Nadu States of India, Religion not much matters for Elections as it is in Hinduism in North India.

I know you won't try to understand what is truly going on with "needs" and "Unethical Fun" and "Economic Conditions", but keep on saying "Religion, Religion, Religion".

You are complaining People but not understanding their situations.
My question is, until People understand what you said about "Democracy", until People throw away "Corruption, etc." - what kind of Rule should be imposed?

If you willing to truly understand, then reply. If again gonna complain "People, Corruption, Religion, etc.", then I see you are not Practically addressing but just Ideologically "what-should-be" in "Conditioned to Democracy".

Also, You fail to see the "Dark side of Democracy". Shall we speak about that?
Politicians and Governments in West in Democracy based, needs Friendship of Major Illegal Gun Dealers and Drug Dealers. If they don't keep Friendship with them, then they will become a National Threat as well as Threat to a Party. Not only them, Businessmen support also necessary, even if those Businessmen are slightly Unethical and illegal.

I know, you won't go into it as you keep on "Praising Democracy" but don't try to know what "major dealings" happen in "High Level" between Nations and Political Parties and Gun/Drug Dealers and Businessmen.

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 3:07 pm

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 10:08 am

Belindi wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:39 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 8:17 am

Okay, but who is to say which is Ethical which is not?
Then isn't it like curbing people from freedom to have fun, like those Egoistic Greedy Sages and Theism?

You and I and all responsible adults have a duty to decide what is right and what is wrong. If you hand over this responsibility to priests, a king, or a holy book then you have failed to be responsible.

This Democracy, shall be suitable only in States, where Country is in Good Economical Level and People are mostly compassionate. Even US and UK faces many threats and Evils because of this Democracy.

But, in case like India and Pak and Srilanka and etc., Low Economical Level People are High nd want Daily Amount for Survival. They sell "votes" for Money. They don't want to decide for themselves, and not interested to, but only need Money for survival, and asks themselves to those Politicians "Those Politicians have given this much Money, when you gonna give me? Only if you give more, I will vote you, or else I gonna vote for that Politician". They are not well Educated and Well Compassionate nd Well Economical Position, but their needs manipulate them, and Democracy ruins them by giving "Votes".
Votes, not my rights to them, but to satisfy my needs. Even if you give Education, they won't sit and hear, and only to Run for Daily needs as "Fun" and "Necessities" is what they want out of Money but no Ethical Nation.

So, if they are more in such Countries, Democracy is another Failure. Even it's a Failure in the One were it started implemented too, as they couldn't take Action against Unethical Person at large, due to the Competition posed by Opposing Parties and needed Votes of such Few Unethical People too to Win Opposing Leaders.

That is true. You need a judicial system independent of the ruler, you need workers who are not so overworked and listless that they are apathetic, you need literate workers(although education levels don't have to be high for democracy to work well enough), you need elections that are free from corruption and bribery.
Religions alone are useless for democratic reform because ruling elites bend religious doctrines so that social mobility does not happen.
People have to revolt against a corrupt ruler for democracy to work. The Abrahamic religions are effective when they inspire and endorse social movements towards democracy and against corrupt rulers. Unfortunately usually these religions are used to conserve old hierarchies.
To conserve old hierarchies the religions are interpreted as glorifying poverty, mystifying the divine rights of rulers and rich people, and romanticising cheap consumer goods, entertainments, and easy consolations.

There is threat to US Dollar Economy and Euro, and they are willing to take Violence for preserving it. They don't want "Chinese Currency" to get dominated in World, and Egoistically and Greedily do many actions.

Even in Ukraine War, US only understood that it made wrong decisions and should have Peacefully Negotiated at the starting itself, one year before. After 6 months of War, they realised this, and urged Ukraine to Peacefully Negotiate but Ukraine forcefully rejected it.

Putin and Hitler and Xi-Jinping and Modi, are not truly driven by Ideologies for International Dealings, but only upon Economical Conditions.

You have to understand and study Economy, rather than Ignorantly cursing "Eastern Ideologies", as this "Democracy" also has "Dark side" when comes to Elections and Economy even in US and UK.

What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

See, please don't speak with Hatred mindset.
Putin, clearly said many times that, Russia wants Crimea and East Ukraine to make Trade through Black Sea.

If they take that Trade, US and Europe will lose their dominating Market position upon "Developing Countries", so not ready to lose it, and will also hit majorly on their Currency.

US too accepts that. Here are some reference,
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine ... rt/2731539
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine ... at/2735634
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/new ... urope.html

See, Russia is facing Major Economical Issue, which People living in Dominating Countries couldn't look at. They want only East Ukraine, Crimea but not whole Previous Soviet Russia.

But, what US wants is, Control over all Seas. They want Control over Pacific, Middle East, and Indian Ocean, to keep their "No.1 Position". Even, Threatens and blackmails many "Developing" and "UnderDeveloped Countries". Only their Domination paved way for Cuba for such revolutionary Movements, and even now in Brazil, etc.

US try to impose "Bad Name" upon "Russia and Putin" as "Ideolistic Demons", but reality is the fight for Economy.

First of all, you have to read Politics and Economy to understand "International Issues", and not ignorantly speak "Rubbish, etc.".

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia is not truly interested in "Soviet Russia" mindset. It only needs Crimea and East (where in East Russia, Ukraine Politicians had made Violence against Russian supporters in early years). Ukrainians had involved in many cruel activities in East Ukraine, which was not majorly spoken in West.

And, only by considering all this, Elon Musk Tweeted about Russia's Intentions. He knows what his position is. He likes FUN too, but not Fun and "Ideologies" in these crucial National Issues.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm.

Russia is not truly interested in "Soviet Russia" mindset. It only needs Crimea and East (where in East Russia, Ukraine Politicians had made Violence against Russian supporters in early years)..

Please replace "East Russia" with "East Ukraine".

There are Evidences to show how West Ukraine (mainly Ukraine Politicians and Military after 2014) try to Dominate and Control Donbas and few regions with Violence/Genocide if People didn't supported them.

You are a supporter of "Democracy". Right? Let People in East Ukraine decide for themselves to support which side by "Votes". Who is this "Ukrainian Politicians" to dominate major People in those East Regions, and not leaving them to decide what they want?

You know that I'm an Indian and "Religiously Hindu". Right?
But, I am against Indian Politicians action upon Kashmir in 2019. India had forcefully imposed Dominance over Kashmir, where Kashmir is still largely Muslims and Pakistani support. The Indian Politicians don't want to lose Influence upon Kashmir (like India lost Pakistan on 1947 due to Gandhi's Peace negotiations) and also never care about the needs of Kashmir People.

Like how Indian Politicians are implementing Force and Blackmails and etc. upon Kashmir People to vote for them, the same way West Ukraine Politicians used force and Genocide and etc. to Vote for them in 2019 and 2020 elections. If West Ukraine has no control over East Ukraine People, then they shall vote what they really want (support Russia), and Crimea will go to Russia, and it will become major threat for US and Europe Countries in Economical Dominance. Those nations like US, don't like China and Russia's Increase in Economy by International Trade.

That's why Elon Musk asked in his Tweet, to conduct Re-election in East Ukraine under U.N. supervision.

See, People in Democratical Influence, is not aware of why is really going on In East Ukraine and many Regions.

This is not an "Ideological" Issue, but Purely Economical.

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia wants Ukraine and since Ukraine won't give in, his aim to to destroy it and its people utterly. This is known as genocide. Ironic that a secularist like me is appalled by genocide yet a theist like you supports it. This is just one more example that morality and theistic belief are not connected, as theists often claim.

If Putin has succeeded in easily taking Ukraine, next would have been Moldova. Poland would have been also in his firing line, except for NATO.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 25th, 2023, 12:26 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia wants Ukraine and since Ukraine won't give in, his aim to to destroy it and its people utterly. This is known as genocide. Ironic that a secularist like me is appalled by genocide yet a theist like you supports it. This is just one more example that morality and theistic belief are not connected, as theists often claim.

If Putin has succeeded in easily taking Ukraine, next would have been Moldova. Poland would have been also in his firing line, except for NATO.

Please read my Previous posts. I can see only your Hatred against Ideologies, but not truly true to understand what is going on in East Ukraine since 2014.

You have to study International Economy and Politics. Until that, you can't understand what is really going on in "High Level" and "Those Regions".

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 25th, 2023, 12:26 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia wants Ukraine and since Ukraine won't give in, his aim to to destroy it and its people utterly. This is known as genocide. Ironic that a secularist like me is appalled by genocide yet a theist like you supports it. This is just one more example that morality and theistic belief are not connected, as theists often claim.

If Putin has succeeded in easily taking Ukraine, next would have been Moldova. Poland would have been also in his firing line, except for NATO.

What you say is all a "Panic Creating Techniques" used by US and West Media's and Politicians, to not let people truly understand the issue, and support "Democracy vs Ideologies".

The true Reality is not that, but only Economical Issue.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 25th, 2023, 12:26 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia wants Ukraine and since Ukraine won't give in, his aim to to destroy it and its people utterly. This is known as genocide. Ironic that a secularist like me is appalled by genocide yet a theist like you supports it. This is just one more example that morality and theistic belief are not connected, as theists often claim.

If Putin has succeeded in easily taking Ukraine, next would have been Moldova. Poland would have been also in his firing line, except for NATO.

You know that I am Religious.

But, you also know that, I won't lie and speak without datas showing reality.

I am not interested in World. Let US take over whole world and keep on it's dominance, or Putin or Xi-Jinping or etc.
I am not interested that "Theistic should be present". Let Democracy be there all over world.

I am not supporting anyone, but only showing the reality.

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 25th, 2023, 12:26 am

Viswa_01210 wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 11:21 pm

Sy Borg wrote: ↑February 24th, 2023, 9:43 pm What rubbish. Viswa is acting as a propaganda megaphone.

There was obviously no possible peaceful settlement with Putin. He wanted Ukraine and that was that. There was absolutely no possible negotiation that would stop him from trying to re-take Ukraine because he was, and is, determined re-take former parts of the Soviet Union, to make Russia Great Again.

Putin is still peddling the line of "special military operations" when it's clear that he is determined to commit genocide, to wipe Ukraine and its people off the map.

Are you much Free and Open and can access Huge Data like "Elon Musk".
He is a big supporter for NATO and Ukraine, and supplying his Technical Support. He has access to understand "Major Hidden Dealings" of "US and etc.".

Even though he gives his support for US and Ukraine for War, he rightly understood the Positions of Putin and Russia.

Russia wants Ukraine and since Ukraine won't give in, his aim to to destroy it and its people utterly. This is known as genocide. Ironic that a secularist like me is appalled by genocide yet a theist like you supports it. This is just one more example that morality and theistic belief are not connected, as theists often claim.

If Putin has succeeded in easily taking Ukraine, next would have been Moldova. Poland would have been also in his firing line, except for NATO.

BBC too accepts that, Russia/Putin needs only "Crimea" and "Liberate Donbas related regions".
Russia not need whole Ukraine to support Russia, but only to Liberate East and Crimea for Economy. But, at the same time, not leave Ukraine to support NATO either.